Good fold or bad laydown?

#1 22nd May 2009, 6:32 AM

I'm trying to figure out if I made the right move in this situation-- even though the only reason I'm curious is because I would have won when all the cards were out. Effective stacks are 1500 and I'm at 3000 with KQs on the button. UTG limps and I raise 3x, then the BB shoves and the limper reshoves. So I'm facing a bet for half my stack, getting 3-1 for a call. Is my KQ getting the odds for the call there, or is it too likely that I'm dominated in that spot to make that call profitable?

#2 22nd May 2009, 6:36 AM

That's a hard call to make unless you have a real read on either player. You could be suit dominated (AQ, AJ etc) could be AA or KK and you're in real trouble. I'd probably lay that down unless once again you have a great read that the UTG is trying to steal and knock out the BB.

#3 22nd May 2009, 6:47 AM

That's what I thought too, I was just mad cause I would have hit trips, lol. Thanks for making me feel a little better

#4 22nd May 2009, 6:50 AM

No problem. It always sucks to see when you make a good laydown and then you hit the best hand. But we both know dang well had you called it would have been 3 low cards and the person who had the made hand would have won!

#5 22nd May 2009, 6:54 AM

I had to make some real tough laydowns with JJ yesterday, it broke my heart lol. But when I raise early, and there's a raise and a reraise behind me, I just can't think my hand it good. Man, I hate poker lol

#6 22nd May 2009, 6:57 AM

Yeah I hear ya but you'd rather make those good laydowns then commit a good portion of your stack. You can't just call the re-raises, because then when you don't hit you have to fold. Only option is to go all in and I don't know about you but unless I have a serious read that someone is trying to steal I don't feel very comfortable pushing with JJ.

#7 22nd May 2009, 10:47 PM

Any Ace has you beat, and people who have hands like that often have you dominated with A/Q or A/K.
Unless the blinds are huge or the villains are wild I fold.

With 1,500 stacks, I'm assuming this is early in a tournament and you doubled up, in which case the blinds would be small and risking your chips isn't necessary yet.

#8 23rd May 2009, 1:08 AM

well cj... KQ is a decent hand but in the situation where you are facing a shover and a reshover after u already made your standard bet chances are that your beat, if not dominated, sounds to me like u would have just sucked out

though it would have been nice to get the double KO...

#9 26th May 2009, 9:09 PM

that is near impossible to call unless you know your opponent

#10 26th May 2009, 9:28 PM

Definitely a good fold unless you know BOTH raisers are maniacs. You say you would have hit trips - what cards did the other players have? I'm guessing you were way behind one or both of them, right? As hard as it is, try not to look at the end results when evaluating your play - look only at the odds at the moment you made the decision. 27 offsuit can beat AA on occasion but that doesn't mean calling an allin with it is a good idea.

#11 27th May 2009, 3:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reducto

Definitely a good fold unless you know BOTH raisers are maniacs. You say you would have hit trips - what cards did the other players have? I'm guessing you were way behind one or both of them, right? As hard as it is, try not to look at the end results when evaluating your play - look only at the odds at the moment you made the decision. 27 offsuit can beat AA on occasion but that doesn't mean calling an allin with it is a good idea.

You're definitely right-- I made the correct decision at the time, which is something I should be proud of. I guess I was just tilting a little bit, lol. I think one guy had like AJ and the other had something like 88, 99, etc. So I definitely was not ahead at the start.

#12 27th May 2009, 4:29 AM

A good rule is even if you hit your cards after if you were beat it's always a good fold regardless of whether or not you would've caught your cards as a underdog.

#13 27th May 2009, 8:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjatud2012

the only reason I'm curious is because I would have won when all the cards were out.

Forget results based analysis of hand play. It will make you crazy, and make you play bad. Try to forget what you mucked as soon as you muck it.

Facing two shoves, KQ is terrible, unless you have some sort of a read on both players that indicates they are mildly or severely retarded.

#14 29th May 2009, 2:49 AM

You were correct to fold there. I hate how opponents overvalue hands such as AJ and shove or over-bet with 'em. This forces you to fold the winning cards.

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