Getting Staked

#1 28th October 2010, 6:13 AM

This is my first post and luckily the content will require me to introduce myself and my background so some extent, so to all you Cardschat members I great you a hearty hello!

I'd like to begin by saying I am probably close to the stereotypical young kid you would think of when you picture the new generation playing poker. I've grown up watching the WSOP on tv along with High Stakes Poker etc... however what I feel differentiates myself from the rest is that I've tried my hardest to soak up information, strategy, theory and everything in between. I've red books by Daniel Negreaneu, Phil Helmuth, you name it and I've watched just as many movies.

The meat of this post regards to the fact that several months ago I opened a bankroll on PokerStars of about 50 bucks. after about 8 weeks playing mostly 1.20 sit and goes I was at about $75 I had moved up past that and dropped back down and so on, so forth. However, I felt that I was capable of beating the system. But I am only 19 and a college student so I've never had the opportunity to really invest in my bankroll and still be able to fund my other hobbies.

Recently though, a family friend has offered to stake me in a series of tournaments. The Sunday 1/4 Million and the Daily 40k guarantee among them and others of that caliber. Tournaments with decent purses and low-mid buy-ins.

My dilemna comes here: it frustrates me to no end to read about players like Chris Fergusen (and his FT challenge) as well as players like Durrrr. In other words, guys who can start with nothing and build it to great sums. I realize that they are far and away the exception and not the rule but it makes me think shouldn't even a decent player be able to grow a bankroll at a faster rate than I? Did I not give it enough time? Am I really that naive to think I can succeed in this game?

I understand the rake would make my chosen limits more difficult to beat and all that stuff, I feel well educated but I want your opinions. MTTs are my favorite form of poker.

Thanks all, in advance. and sorry for the wall of text.

#2 28th October 2010, 7:06 AM

The lower levels are raked very high but still beatable. It does take a long time even for a great player to build a BR when starting with a small amount. I have done it over and over again and I am far from a great player so it can be done.

Just keep playing, use proper BR management, keep learning even if you think you know it all, and post some hand histories when you are not sure about a certain situation.

Oh yeah, welcome to the forum.

#3 28th October 2010, 7:10 AM

Thanks for your response Jimmy, and I wasn't very clear in my actual question. I am interested in whether I should take the stake as well as how beatable the lower limits really are whether I could succeed at some higher (somewhat) buy-in MTTs.

#4 28th October 2010, 7:30 AM

First off welcome to the site and I understand your dilema, being a 19 yr old college student myself its definitely hard to find money to invest into poker haha

Id say the micro limits are beatable, some players on here are extremely successful at these limits, it just takes proper brm management, patience, etc...

As for the mtts, I think you should read the best tourny books out there (but it seems like you have), then I would take a shot at mid buy in stuff first. (10-20$) Imo, it would be better to build up towards these, but its your choice.

Look around the forums and it will improve your game guaranteed

#5 28th October 2010, 7:34 AM

I think if you have to ask that question then you're not ready. Those tourney's attract FAR better players that the lower limits. I remember after reading Harrington's first two books I thought I could take on the pro's. That is just not the case though.

Anyway it is fun playing big tourneys and if you get lucky you could have a nice starting BR. The odds are against even a good MTT player of even making it in the money though. Even if you are a great player it is still like a lottery where you just have more tickets than the poorer players.

When I first started playing at Stars I won a 54 player point SNG sat. to the Sunday Million or whatever it was called. Anyway after bubbling out of the tourney I just wish I had cashed out the $215 BI for T$ and played SNG's with it.

I guess it really depends on how much your friend likes his money whether or not you should let him stake you. Just make sure he knows it is most likely he won't be getting his money back. That way it won't effect your play.

#6 28th October 2010, 10:44 AM

IDK what books you have read, maybe make a complete list, and you will get suggestions as to which ones still are good ideas for tourny players. What comes to mind to me right off the cuff are the Arnold Snyder Poker tournament Formula books, and the Winning poker tournaments one hand at a time books. HOH 1+2 are also good books, but not so much geared around online playing. There are many more books and LOADS of good vids and articles out there, and loads of good coaching sites. But sites cost, and there is lots of free stuff, and you will probably get more material than you can handle by just staying here and reading, posting and searching.

As far as being staked, if you take the money and show nothing for it, it will eventually no longer be offered. If you think you are not good enough, or perhaps not ready yet is a better way to put it - as it sounded in your OP - then listen to yourself. Speak to your staker, and make a goal and a plan to get your game up, and start low so you can get better and your staker will not be risking a lot at first. You need 10s of 1000s of hands under your belt to even begin to get a proper idea of where your game stands, stress on the "to even BEGIN". So you will lose your staker fast if you are not ready, unless its a now or never deal, in which case go for it.

#7 28th October 2010, 9:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fletchdad

There are many more books and LOADS of good vids and articles out there, and loads of good coaching sites. But sites cost, and there is lots of free stuff, and you will probably get more material than you can handle by just staying here and reading, posting and searching.

I will work on finding all the books stashed in my room and compiling a list. Coaching is something I think would help me immensly. I just wish I had someone to watch me play poker, to give me pointers and help me stay disciplined. Discipline is something I struggle with but I believe that it is a behavior that can be trained and it is something I am very much committed to. As far as practically receiving coaching, money is an obstacle for me, do any of you happen to know a rough price range for a month of training? I imagine the folks here have better things to do, but I would also be very open to being mentored by any of the more experienced players who have the free time to watch a young fish play some cards

Thanks for the responses guys

EDIT: Also, just an aside, I am participating in the PSO Skill League over at PokerStars right now. I know it's not real training and I'm certainly not excelling right now but it's fun and if you would like to look me up my handle over there is "Robundo"

#8 28th October 2010, 10:02 PM

I think you can get a free trial membership to drag the bar, which is an instructional/training site, by being a cardschat member...not sure of the requirements or lengh of time, (i think 14 days) but if you ask around somebody will know more about that,

#9 28th October 2010, 10:12 PM

Ok, and any insight as to what the training sites really do? I imagine that they are superior to books in that they cater instruction to your game and your needs? How exactly, any idea?

#10 28th October 2010, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seartu

The meat of this post regards to the fact that several months ago I opened a bankroll on PokerStars of about 50 bucks. after about 8 weeks playing mostly 1.20 sit and goes I was at about $75 I had moved up past that and dropped back down and so on, so forth. However, I felt that I was capable of beating the system.

But you obviously aren't capable of beating the system, right? That IS the system, and in fact its the EASIEST LEVEL of the system (unless there are cheaper SnG's). What makes you think moving up in stakes is going to make things easier?

Getting staked is not going to make things easier for you. In fact, unless getting staked allows you to play much much higher (like, say, $15 SnG's) the share you pay your backer will eliminate any additional profits you get from playing higher. Getting staked sucks, being in stakeback sucks, just avoid it unless you want to move up to play a REALLY juicy game that your bankroll cannot afford.

I'm "just a college student and I turned $50 into over $10,000 (most of it from rakeback, but hey that still counts). If you have the patience and the skill, the money will come. It certainly didn't happen overnight, or even in one year (it took about 3 years of playing). But if you're willing to put in the effort and you've got the talent, your roll will grow.

If you thought the tournaments you are going to get staked for are very soft, and that you have the ability to beat them, then by all means accept the stake. Your staker should also be experienced enough to know if you're able to beat the games he's putting you in. But I personally try to play with my own money whenever possible.

If you want help beating the stakes you're currently playing, I'm sure everyone would be willing to pitch in. Playing tournaments with a lower rake, switching to a different game type that might fit your strengths better, and honing your skills in the hand analysis forums will all help a ton. And instead of coaching, get someone here to help you out. Most of the members on here are willing to help.

#11 28th October 2010, 11:06 PM

Thank you for your input. I really do appreciate it and when I said I felt I was capable of beating the system it was because I had increased my BR by 50% in a couple months. I know it's not super exciting or even a statement of real skill but I felt I was a winner and the stakes just depressed me.

After listening to this I expect some of you feel this way: and I certainly can't blame you.

I think sometime here in the next couple weeks I'll deposit 30 bucks or so and get back to grinding the $.01/.02 NL tables. And I'll avoid getting staked. I've been thinking about it for a while and it seems less and less appealing as time goes on.

Again I am very open to anyone who would take the time to give me some real feedback on my play. I can e-mail hand histories or set out a playing schedule, anything you need. I really am serious about this.

Thanks alot.

#12 29th October 2010, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seartu

Thank you for your input. I really do appreciate it and when I said I felt I was capable of beating the system it was because I had increased my BR by 50% in a couple months. I know it's not super exciting or even a statement of real skill but I felt I was a winner and the stakes just depressed me.

Oh. 50% return in a couple of months is pretty good. Poker's not the fast path to riches, so believe it or not you're probably on the right track.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seartu

I really am serious about this.

I'll help if you're serious about it. I enjoy helping people who are serious about improving. I can't help you all that much with your SnG game, but I can help with cash games of just about any sort. My AIM & Skype screen name is c9h13no3hcl. Hit me up if you want to talk more.

#13 29th October 2010, 2:02 AM

Durrrr and Ferguson worked their way up in a different environment. Online poker gets harder each year.

The game is still beatable. Tens of thousands of people make a profit online. Sure, most (2/3 to 3/4) are not winning players.

More than ever it takes discipline and tenacity. Training resources are everywhere, and relatively cheap, so players (the competition) have become better.
Also, depositing has become a lot more difficult, so many of the "oh what the heck I'll deposit another $100 this week" players have just given up and taken their wallets elsewhere, or they are at least less likely to go through the hassle of finding a way to deposit.

#14 29th October 2010, 2:47 AM

I grinded up from nothing to something. It took quite a while but the thing is I really didn't know how to play before. Now that I know how to play I could build a good size roll from nothing in a few months time and not years. IMO it's best to build your own roll as you learn good BRM skills as well as experiance. There is a guy boku87 on pokerstars that build a $5 roll to $100k in a years time. But the thing about all these players is they all are proven winnings at higher stakes games. The problem I'm going through now is I'm rolled to play higher but not skilled enough there to win.

#15 29th October 2010, 6:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seartu

This is my first post and luckily the content will require me to introduce myself and my background so some extent, so to all you Cardschat members I great you a hearty hello!

I'd like to begin by saying I am probably close to the stereotypical young kid you would think of when you picture the new generation playing poker. I've grown up watching the WSOP on tv along with High Stakes Poker etc... however what I feel differentiates myself from the rest is that I've tried my hardest to soak up information, strategy, theory and everything in between. I've red books by Daniel Negreaneu, Phil Helmuth, you name it and I've watched just as many movies.

The meat of this post regards to the fact that several months ago I opened a bankroll on PokerStars of about 50 bucks. after about 8 weeks playing mostly 1.20 sit and goes I was at about $75 I had moved up past that and dropped back down and so on, so forth. However, I felt that I was capable of beating the system. But I am only 19 and a college student so I've never had the opportunity to really invest in my bankroll and still be able to fund my other hobbies.

Recently though, a family friend has offered to stake me in a series of tournaments. The Sunday 1/4 Million and the Daily 40k guarantee among them and others of that caliber. Tournaments with decent purses and low-mid buy-ins.

My dilemna comes here: it frustrates me to no end to read about players like Chris Fergusen (and his FT challenge) as well as players like Durrrr. In other words, guys who can start with nothing and build it to great sums. I realize that they are far and away the exception and not the rule but it makes me think shouldn't even a decent player be able to grow a bankroll at a faster rate than I? Did I not give it enough time? Am I really that naive to think I can succeed in this game?

I understand the rake would make my chosen limits more difficult to beat and all that stuff, I feel well educated but I want your opinions. MTTs are my favorite form of poker.

Thanks all, in advance. and sorry for the wall of text.

. As long as you are old enough to play at said rooms, you should welcome a stake by anymeans if you are just starting out. But be sure to agree the terms, and keep it simple. If amomonst family and friends a handshake might work. But if an outside stake ia=s at hand an ironclad contract may be the way to go. Remember it's cash money and taxes may come into play sumday soon. So goodluck and be prepared to hire an accountant.

#16 31st October 2010, 2:44 AM

Just wanted to shoot everyone an update if you're interested:

I attempted to make a eCheck deposit for about $30 but it got rejected and I got an E-mail from my bank saying that the "Checking Account Format was incorrect so the request was rejected." Ugh did that piss me off, they know it was a checking account and that it was mine but they can't call me to see if I want it approved?

Now Pokerstars has put a 10 day hold on any eChecks I deposit and my bank has no weekend hours, so long story short it will be 12 days before I can deposit onto PS.

#17 31st October 2010, 3:28 AM

if you are open to a change i would suggest changing to cash games. There is a lot less variance in cash games as opposed to MTTs. But if you really don't feel comfortable with cash games then just stick to MTTs and do what everyone else has already told you...practice

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