Freeroll tournament explanation

I'm a super-newb. Never played a game for real money, but after reading here I'm starting to think that NOT playing real money is just a waste of time (hard to learn when your opponents are no smarter than you are).

So the freerolls interest me. From what I can understand you can enter a free roll tournament with no real money and have a chance to win real money to then play in the real money tournaments.

Am I understanding this correctly? Do you have to make a deposit of some kind before you are eligible for the free roll tourneys? Do frequent player points come into play?

I was just hoping someone could define how free roll tourneys work, how do you enter them and are the winnings always real money? I am mostly interested in how FTP and PS handle their free roll tourneys and where I need to go to get started.

PS I have my Little green book on the way. I'm also very seriously considering picking up Holdem Manager, not to mention I'm reading everything I can here. Its a bit confusing though with all the acronyms and insider speak, like 3-betting. The stickied glossary was a big help, but there's still a lot of terms I am unfamiliar with.

So that was a long ass post to ask how freerolls work

PPS OK, to not start a new thread for another quick basic question. Where would be a good place to learn about position(s)? I have been reading a lot that reference good positions, but haven't come across any basic material that explains the positions. Like I said I have Phil Gordon's little green book on the way, if you know this info is in there then just tell me and I'll wait patiently.....Well I'll wait anyway.

Thanks for all the help so far.
Me

No. But sometimes you have to make a deposit before you are allowed to withdraw freeroll winnings.

Usually, no. However you can buy into some tournaments using FPPs, but they're not really freerolls.

Same way you enter any tournament. Download a poker client and find out.

Don't, you're too new to make use of it yet. Wait until you're playing at least $10 NLHE cash games, or $10 SnG's.

Many thanks!

A quick introduction to positions.



Starting from the small blind (Alice) and going around clockwise.

Small Blind - SB - Always first to act after the flop
Big Blind - BB
Under the gun - UTG
Under the gun plus one - UTG+1
Under the gun plus two - UTG+2
Middle position one - MP1
Middle position two - MP2
Middle position three - MP3
Cut Off - CO
Dealer, or Button - BTN - Always last to act after the flop

This is for a 10 handed table so if you were at say a 9 handed table you would take away one of the MP3, then at a 6 handed table you may take away MP2 and UTG+2. Also the amount of middle positions and Under the guns may vary from player to player but there will always be a SB, BB, UTG, CO and BTN until there are less than 5 players.

Now the reason for playing in position is basically that it is much easier to make a decision after you have seen what the other people in the hand have done.

When you are first to act you have no idea what they are going to do after you. Say you wanted to try and bluff them off their hand, you would have to make a decent size bet but if you do this and they have a great hand they will be able to call or raise you and you may have to fold that hand.

So generally you want to be playing as much as you can from the later positions (CO, BTN) so that you have the chance to see what the other players actions are before you have to decide what you want to do.

Oh my, that is perfect! Thanks so much. Tried out my first freeroll tourney. It was a Turbo version as there weren't any others starting anytime soon. It was a fun few minutes :P

It sounds like you are pretty new to poker so just take your time and try to learn about position and all the other ins and outs. Freerolls are a good way to learn. That's how I started out and you might win some dough I placed second the other day it took almost 5 hours. GL

if youre just out to learn, play whateer freeroll you can get in to, but if you want to build yourself a bankroll from freerolls, i wouldnt waste my time on public ones with 2700 people on them like the ones on tilt, they are hard to make the money and they are loaded with donks, try to get into private freerolls like the ones CC offers, there are many good private freerolls, thats how i got started and im sure you'll pick up on the game fast with all your reading and studying.
best of lcuk to you!

Ok.. some great info... don't quit you day job.. but if your serious about poker then try reading a basic poker book. See how that helps.

Read everything in here;

http://www.cardschat.com/poker-strategy.php

it is as good as several books.

Use the freerolls to begin to understand what is going on in the poker world these days. Freerolls are indicative of the general frame of mind IF you discount the first hour. During that first hour you will run into 2 kinds of insanity;

1- People who really have no clue

2- People who are really good but impatient.

It is likely they will appear to play the same game, in reality one group knows no better, and the other doesn't give a shit. Both of these groups tend to die early in bigger tourneys, and most are gone before the first hour is done. At that point most of the players left are somewhat decent, have studied at least a little bit about the game, and will tend to play fairly conservative.

By the time you get deep, and the bubble (that spot where getting past it gets you actual prize money) is visible, the players are probably 40% good to very good, and 57% lucky. The other 3% is unknown, or got such a big stack early that it is hard to pin them down.

After the money spot, the game changes radically. Where folks with 1/2 a brain had limped cautiously into the money, they now change their game like they change their undies during flu season. In many ways the tourney at that point resembles the opening minutes which you tried to avoid.

But again, read all the strategy articles above, and get comfortable playing whatever sites you choose.

You could deposit money, and as a newb we would all appreciate that, but we appreciate more that you found us and are willing to learn.

Thanks for all the words of wisdom.


I've been reading through http://www.cardschat.com/poker/lessons/ as well. I've been reading a lot more than I've been playing actually, but without a deposit the games I'm seeing I don't think are very good training material, but its a ton of fun.

I'm definitely in this for the fun of the game, not the money, but that being said I don't feel like I'm really playing the game correctly in these free places. I guess its a bit of a catch-22 early on. You don't want to put in money that will almost definitely be lost, but at the same time its hard to get a good idea of what money play will be like without the money!


I've been concentrating on FTP. I was wondering if someone could explain the rakeback a bit better. I understand what it is, but is it something that sticks with your account forever or just a limited time? Would it be a good idea to go ahead and make a new account with the rakeback bonus right now even though I'm not planning to use real money for awhile?


Another question, I have popped into pokerstars for a bit and I noticed they have "Training" games. Anyone capable of explaining how these work and whether they are worth trying?


Yet another question. Is there a nice website with the most common graphs/spreadsheets/flash cards with odds and whatnot? It would be nice to be able to glance at a website or piece of paper that would give me some odds on my cards. Just the most basic stuff. I have a copy of "Mathematics And Poker (Brian Alspach)" and Phil Gordon's "Little Green Book", and a pdf copy of "The Theory of Poker (Seventh printing, Complete) (David Sklansky)" among many many others I downloaded. I'm starting with the Phil Gordon book, but I feel like I need to get a better base in the mathematics of poker before worrying more about the science/social aspect of poker.
EDIT: Well I answered this question by just following dj11's link, lots of odds info there!


How do you guys feel about the other poker games? Razz/Omaha/etc? Should I put some effort into learning these games as well or just focus all my attention on hold'em? I'm thinking at this point I should probably just stick with hold'em till I have a better grasp on how it works.


Thanks, thanks, thanks. I can't say it enough. Thank you all.

don't get ahead of yourself. you really don't want to dive right in and try to be all over everything at once and be overwhelmed. its cool to try lots of new stuff since its a whole new thing though. i wouldn't worry about getting HEM or PT for a good long while...in fact, if i were you, i'd concentrate on just the freerolls, and at ftp, there's lots of action on the play money tables too. i think, despite sometimes feeling impatient, especially if you've had a little success, you should never rush yourself into making a deposit or blowing that dollar you just won 5 mins after winning it. we all probably had a day or too as a noob where we won something, and thought, "hey, this is easy"...well, not so fast, haha. play for free for a good while, find your style and find what you like to play...and practice the things you've learned in the play money and freerolls. even there, where there's so many horrible players, those new things you learned really can make a big difference.

in case you haven't found them all ready, some fun freerolls ftp has that might get you at least some tournament dollars are the freeroll to the daily dollar, which i think starts around 6:25pm server time. the tournament dollar freeroll, which i think is 6:40pm. and the satellite to the ferguson fr, which starts at 11:10pm. get yourself a tournament dollar and have a ball playing in the daily dollar or something, which is basically a freeroll that costs a dollar, with all the ppl that play in it. you'll start with 3000 chips in that thing so you'll even have a chance to make a mistake or two or have some rough luck and still recover. i think finding those freerolls is easiest by clicking on play money in the client and they're all listed under the tournaments there.

on a sidenote - get rakeback (rake is the portion of every pot or tourney you pay to the pokersite).

Sign up through a rakeback site - there are several - just google "rakeback".

Ps.: Yeah they are other games, too - Omaha, Omaha hi/low, stud, razz, badugi 2-7 draw and others......

I'd try to get a real grasp on hold'em first though - might be a bit too much of info otherwise.

Yah +1 on 'don't get HEM' off the start. The statistics it provides you will be near useless to you at first (and really unecessary when getting started).
Phil Gordon's Little Green Book is an excellent choice!!! (coming from a poker book guy here, having literally read dozens upon dozens of them...another addiction of mine, lol).

Regular freerolls on both Fulltilt & Pokerstars will be okay to an extent (for a brief stint perhaps). It'll give you an oppurtunity to see alot of hands if nothing else but for sure the play is very poor. AND YES.. it is real money you'll be winning there that you can use for anyother game on the sites. Some sites will let you withdrawl those winnings, others will require you to deposit first prior to being able to make a withdrawl. I've actually now won somewhere in the vicinity of $750.00 in freerolls alone (picked up another $46 tonight in the CC freeroll on Fulltilt, lol... had to sneak a brag in there, lol). Two summers ago I actually took 1st in two private forum freerolls with 1,000 entrants+ in the very same day. You can make some startup cash from the freerolls (although I did actually deposit when I first got started but the freerolls were an extra I could play when not wanting to risk any of my bankroll).
Keep posting on here and you'll get to play the Cardschat Freerolls which are an excellent way to learn how to play the game. There are ALOT of good players in the CC freerolls (way better than you'd typically find in anyother freerolls aside from maybe the Ironman $30K freeroll (lol) and some other larger rakeback site freerolls).
GL on the tables!! Keep posting away and asking questions. No question is a dumb question. The question you don't ask is the dumb one.

The question you don't ask is the dumb one (<< that didn't come out sounding quite right...).
There are no dumb questions so keep firing away!! You can save yourself alot of time by asking questions here in the forum (ie. for starters.. poker book selection... .so many books you could read that would have you just spinning your wheels. Meanwhile askng a question about it here, you get the input from many players who've gone down the path before you.

GL and enjoy the journey!

Had my best FR tourney so far last night. I just joined the only tourney coming up anytime soon. Turned out to be PLO. I was reading wikipedia on how to play for the first few minutes. I finished 63rd out of 2700, and I pretty much just gave up and pushed with some crappy straight draw just because it was so late and I needed to get to bed. Need to make sure I get home from work and register in time for the earlier tourney's. Proof sometimes luck is better than skill :P

So I made a new FTP account with rakeback through rakebrain. Turns out you have 60 days to use it before it becomes deactivated. The rakebrain email said after the 60 days they would be able to "try" and reactivate your rakeback, but I don't think I trust that statement very much.

Just FYI for those that might give a shit

I have won some money in freerolls but never got to turn it into a check...thats my problem I keep playing til my money is gone.

As long as its coming from your poker winnings and not your wallet I'd say you're doing much better than average

Well I gave up on free play (I'll still hit a freeroll tourney now and again).

I went ahead and deposited $50 because it just didn't feel like I was learning much of anything in the free rooms. And after about 50 cash game hands and a 6 man sit n' go I'm pretty confident I made the right decision. It feels like I'm playing a completely different game.

I lost a couple bucks on the cash games, but managed to place 2nd in my 2nd ever 6 man SNG.

My winnings you might ask?! $4.20 Kind of fitting



I've hit my real money limit for the day though, time to go finish reading "Theory of poker" and maybe hit up a freeroll tourney this evening.

OK I have another silly question. Why are the blinds considered to be early position when they are the last to bet preflop? Is there a reason not to try and steal the limpers bets from the small or big blind?

I haven't been playing much position game. I know in the back of my head I need to start thinking about it more, but when it comes time to actually play I don't give it much thought. I'm also still trying to grasp some of the odds concepts and 4's and 2's and implied odds and all that from the "Little Green Book". Phil gordon says its pretty easy, but it all went over my head. I think that part is going to take a little longer to sink in.

Looks like you have already had a lot of feed back. One thing. Stick to the forum freerolls. The public ones are just free for alls.

Need to change the title of this thread to Smotpokers diary or some shit

On the flop SB is first to act, BB is second.

Playing position is essential - you can see the action before you act in late position which is a huge advantage.

Example: I fold K10o from UTG whereas I raise with it from the CO/button most of the time...

Stealing limped pots from the BB / or the BB from SB if it's folded to you is possible - but if you get called you'll be OOP (out of position) again ....

Yeah, I know how important it is, but I tend to focus too much on the two cards in front of me when I'm playing and focus not enough on position, opponents betting habits, etc. I need to do more reading and less gambling.

You don't need to deposit any where to start playing. You can start with freerolls and hopefully build up a bankroll. If not, you can look into depositing but try the play for fun games and get better at the game first.

Position is not important-it's EVERYTHING. If you're the first to act you'll play different than if you're on the button. As for more reading and less gambling, it's important to read but you gotta grind it out on the tables. Imagine going to school to be an accountant then the day you graduate you're made CFO. You'll drown the first week. Play the $1 tourneys and .01/.02 cash tables so you don't lose too much learning. If you play at Full Tilt check out the academy and watch all the videos, especially Ferguson's bankroll management. I see you made #62 on a 2400 man freeroll-nice job. Hope you see that you gotta start off easy in the first few rounds of a tourney and remember that its a marathon, not a sprint. Good luck and keep us posted.

I actually made the switch to pokerstars after reading on another forum that FTP's rake on the micro tables is a whopping 10%. I like the FTP software better though.


I'm doing good at the tables for hours at a time. My chip stack will slowly but surely increase, and then in one fell swoop I will lose it all. The majority of the time its preflop and I'm calling all in with the strongest hand, I just always get outdrawn. I keep telling myself, just don't go all in. Fold pocket aces if you have to, just never call an all in unless I have the absolute nuts. I still do it though. On occasion I'll also call an all in from a loose player thats been bluffing a lot with my top pair or something and he's got the nuts. The preflop all ins at least I'm ahead, but I just can't go all in with top pair. /rant

How do you read someone on a draw? I'm in position, making a 3/4 pot sized bet post flop after its checked to me and they call. I just don't know how to read that. I rarely get reraised postflop. So I could be looking at trips, pocket aces, whatever. Everybody seems to want to slow plays big cards. Then a scare card comes, say the board is 5d 6h Kh (I have Ks Jc). This is the cheapy tables so the pot is sitting at $0.16 (3x BB preflop and call). He checks, I bet out $0.12 with my top pair and I get called. River comes 8h. So there is a straight and flush draw on the board. Pot is at 30 cents

My questions are.

Why would someone with the cards required to make a straight with 5,6,8 calling 3x big blind raise preflop?

What would my next move be?

Do I make another 3/4 pot bet or go way over the top to try and force him out?

If he calls the turn should I fold my top pair?



These kinds of situations screw me the most. I either fold with the best hand or call a loose villian and he flops the nuts. I was at a table with this guy that bluffed and showed his cards after every hand. Just repeatedly bluffing and showing his 10/2o 7/4o etc. I finally get a hand and call and he's got the nuts. And people on the cheap tables call pot sized bets on the turn with just a draw. Hell I've seen em go all in on the turn with a draw. I just find these situations the hardest to read (and they get me in trouble)

I guess this is just a price of playing poker Another weird thing I had happen last night on PS. A guy joined one of the 1cent/2cent tables, and bought in for $1 ($5 max). He called all-in preflop every single hand. I was the first to call with an AQo (I wouldn't call a legitimate all in preflop with this, but I said what the hell). He turns over J7o or something. So I win and the rest of the table gets the hint. This guy keeps going all in with shit cards, keeps getting another $1 buyin after losing. He threw away about 7 dollars this way and just left. I don't really understand what was happening there. He was pretty much just throwing away money.

I don't expect anyone to reply to this whole monster of a post, just pick a section

First win! And I didn't realize it wasn't a $1 buy in till it was over.

Keep in mind that you can't cash out unless you have made atleast 1 minimum deposit of real money onto your poker account. I just recently found this out for myself but thankfully I have made deposits in the past

TWO IN A ROW!!! I meant to pick a $3 table this time and also went with 18 instead of only 9. I can't believe it. I'm in shock.

3 in a row!! I'm scared to play anymore, I had to have gone through a years worth of luck in the past several hours.

Well, I tried a $4 180 seat SNG and got trampled, so I gave one more go at the $3 18 seat SNG and got a 2nd. Nearly doubled my bankroll in one night.

I believe your doing the right thing by studying and asking questions. But don't forget to gain experience through play. The best way to learn poker is to learn from your mistakes. You won't learn a thing (as much anyway) from a freeroll win or even a small MTT/SnG win. You will learn a ton from losses. I remember mistakes that cost me wins/cashes alot more than than victories.



If you learn anything first though it's this:

Good bankroll management is NUMBER 1!

So as was evident by my play last night I think I have the early/middle stages of SNG's down fairly well.

Early: Play very tight, only play good cards in good position, try and get an all-in early with the best hand.

Middle: (for 9-18 man SNG's I think the middle is when it gets to 6-7 handed, this may be different for much larger MTT's). I loosen up a bit, I'll play good cards out of position and weak cards in position with as small of raises as possible because most of the time the flop is going to miss me.

Late: Here is where I have my problems. I tend to tighten up more when it gets to 5 handed play. Unless I have pocket J's or higher or AKo or better I'm usually going to fold.

I need to play it more by ear I think, as some people also tighten up late trying to get to the next money level, and others really loosen up.


So to the root of my question. Heads Up. My wins last night were fairly easy after HU play started. The games ended fairly quickly, I would always raise preflop and it tended to make my opponent fold, so he was folding when I was the BB and when he was the BB. So I was winning the lowball game fairly handily.

My last game in which I came in 2nd I got really schooled by the guy I was playing against. He was doing similar preflop raising as I was doing, but I was calling with 7,9o and other mediocre hands and missing the flop and then having to fold to any of his bets.

I have trouble reading hands when its HU as a smart player isn't going to deviate much from his preflop ritual based on his cards. At least I don't, regardless of what I have if I'm not folding I'm raising 3x BB, from pocket Aces to 2,4o.

So the only real question in this post... Where is a good source of reading material/training for heads up play?

Thanks!