Flopped a set OOP... lead in to raiser?

Hey guys just a quick query.

So I get say 55 in middle position and decide that stack sizes around the table are good for set mining. I limp in. Guy in late position puts in a standard 4bb raise which I call and we go heads up to the flop.

I flop a set and action is on me. Is leading in to the raiser REALLY the best thing to do to maximize value? If the board is not paired, suited or with made straights using playing zone cards (90% of the time) then I am not going to be worried as I can always draw to a full house as easily as he can make his flush or straight.

I know that he will miss most of the time so if I bet into him chances are I am not going to get any action. If I check and let him continue taking the lead I can flat call and try to get more money from him with a modest bet on the turn. Or even check-raise but this would just scream SET! to him and probably ruin my chances of getting paid on the turn.


I suppose he might also check to get a free card but is that really likely?

Even if he does go for the free card I am drawing to a full house and will improve as often as he does so should I be worried?

Should I check to let him take a free card and have a chance to catch up?

Maybe I should use the texture of the flop to decide what to do when leading out post-flop OOP?

What do you guys do when in this situation and how does the texture of the flop affect your decision making?

Looking forward to your thoughts!

Frank

Yes, you need to consider flop texture, villain habits, hero's image, etc. to evaluate whether donking your flopped set is correct or not. If the board is super dry and nowhere near his range to raise over Hero's limp (say he's a tag and the flop is 852r), we may want to take a different line than if the flop hits his range reasonably hard and has lots of potential draws (same tag, QcJc5d). I'm much more inclined to donk the second flop than the first.

Note that it's not "worry" that makes me want to donk the second flop - it's the possibility of getting value from flush and straight draws, where I'm not sure we're going to get value from donking into AK/AQ/KQ etc. on the first flop.

You're correctly citing other considerations (though fwiw I dislike open limping in MP, so I'd prefer a different example of me getting to the flop , say a minraised multiway pot where I'm holding 55 in BB).

Put in a bet half the size of the pot. Guys with AK AQ will usually call.

If you hadn't limp/called in the 1st place you wouldn't be in this mess.

Change your example to open raising 55 in MP and getting a caller OTB. Now you cbet and he calls (or raises) and we're suddenly playing for stacks and we never have to worry about donking.

But since you open limped / called if I'm the LP raiser alarm bells are going off the instant you start trying to build the pot.

Moral of the story: STOP OPEN LIMPING!

Ok so what you are saying is that I should set mine by raising?

Wouldn't that make it impossible to trap with a small pocket pair? My numbers are currently 14.8,12.2 (current 9000 hand sample) If I stopped limping with pocket pairs they would be nearer 15,14.5. wouldnt this make me too aggressive pre-flop and too predictable?

Are you also saying that I can set mine with low pairs in any position as long as I can predict getting called by stack sizes that are big enough? If I stopped limping with SC (I hardly ever anyway) my PFR would be the same as my VPIP!

EDIT:

I suppose that with an infinate pre-flop AF I might get more action with my c-bets which could make up for the lack of trapping?

It's saying set mining as a primary goal oop is a losing proposition. Raising is for value - 55 is frequently the best hand pf, gives us initiative to better make plays at the right flops/villain types, etc.

The only way that your PFR would get to be the same as your vpip is if you never call a raise pre flop. This means you would have to 3 bet every time there is a raise in front of you if you wanted to see a flop! vpip is not just a measure of how much you limp, it is more an idea of how much you will call a raise as you should never be limping pre flop!!! (not while you're still learning the ropes anyway...)

Take these 2 statements together and tell me who you're trapping when you limp/call? You said yourself you almost always have a small pair. So it's actually pretty easy for people to play perfectly against you with position postflop. They cbet and you fold your missed set or you try to build a pot when you flop your set. Smart players are never going to play a big pot against you when you limp/call from EP without a bigger set+. So you're implied odds that you think you're getting by "trapping" just aren't there because you're not getting payed off when you hit.

A VPIP/PFR differential of ~2-3% is pretty standard but the difference should be made up of the times you're calling a raise with position, not by limping in preflop.

I would let him get the free card. With floping the set it going to be hard to beat you unless there a flush, or straight draw on the board. then If that the case then lead out to the point that he will not call.

This sounds quite clever but could you please explain it again. Could this be used in other situations, not just s set.

I would like to understand things like this, I belive this would make me a better player.