Dwindling Bankroll

I placed in one of the CC freerolls the other day on Ultimatebet and made 5 dollars. The next day I started playing the .01/.02 tables and brought it up to around 15 dollars within a couple of days. Then, I decided to move up to the .05/.10 tables and only play with the minimum allowed. Within a couple of days I had lost almost all of it.

I've heard about the bad rap on Ultimatebet. I'm not quite sure I understand all of it. I play pretty tight and never get very aggresive (not counting drunk nights). Is this a normal on UB or should I just be sticking to the micro tables? I understand swings in luck, but this is the way it happens to me almost every time I have money on there.

I would like to start putting money on Carbon Poker but I can't afford a fifty dollar minimum deposit. Are there any suggestions as to what I might be doing wrong?

$15 at .05/.10 isn't even a losing streak. $15 is low for .01/.02 You could be playing great poker and this will still happen to you every time (sooner or later) if you keep moving up stakes too fast.
Ultimatebet's troubles were with highstakes cheaters who had restricted access to hole cards, I believe. Use the search feature to find threads on Ultimatebet and search BRM while you're at it.

I would seriously consider doing away with the drunk nights. Although some say it's impossible to beat a drunk, I wouldn't count on it.

I've been through this cycle a couple of times - on Ultimatebet, on FT and on Bodog. The first time it happened, I was tempted to consider some wild-assed theory of conspiracy - that the sites make it possible to win some bucks on freerolls, give you a feel for the win as your stack grows moderately, then kills off all your luck.

When it happened on the other two sites, I realized that I had created the pattern myself. I would do the same sort of thing - build my bankroll moderately then move up a little in stakes or start playing some slightly higher-stake mtts (I love sniper/KOs but they are expensive). When I went on a down-swing, I'd start getting desperate and play like I was getting desperate, until it was all gone.

Now when I hit a downswing, I stop playing entirely for a day or two to get past those desperate feelings. After a few hours, you can regain that understanding that it's only small money anyway, and so try to re-gain your game.

Shoulda stayed at the 01/02 tables longer, especially if you were winning there and because you didn't have enough to move up to the 05/.10 tables.

Playing with the minimum requires a different strategy than playing with a full buyin. It's okay if you're just going to test the waters, then go back down or then go to a full buy in after you get comfortable (assuming that you have the bankroll).

To play short you have to start throwing away a lot of hands that you ordinarily can call raises with or limp with because you don't have the implied odds to "hope to hit the flop". In other words, the odds of you hitting something on the flop are much higher than the amount you can possibly win because your buyin is so small. If you try to play short without adjusting your play you'll dribble away your bankroll rather than protecting it.

Stay within whatever your bankroll allows you to play until you're rolled for the next level, whereever you decide to play.

in order to play NLH cash games you normally need 2000x the BB of whatever limit you are playing. I reccoment 3000x the BB though just to be safe. So even to play micro you need a min. BR of 40 - 60 dollars. My best reccomendation would be to do exactly what ferguson did. Play mostly one dollar tourneys so if you are running good you may end up with a decent payday of over a hundred bucks starting out a decent bankroll. and if you are running bad you may still end up cashing one out of 3 so you can at least be entertained for longer. If you are just trying to build a huge bankroll fast, invest it all and hope to run good, cuz that's the only way you can do it. otherwise it will take you months of good playing in order to turn a bankroll from nothing into something. And maybe your play could have something to do with it, if you aren't aggressive enough people are going to fold when you have a hand and raise when you don't and that will kill you in poker also.

Variance, bankroll management, just a couple of topics you should search. Good luck.

I'm starting to see my problem. I was tossing fifty bucks in and playing the dollar sng's and having some luck. But when I would get bored with the sng's I would hit the .10/.25 ring games and usually end up close to bust. I know I'm not a bad player, and I'm not too tight. But the way most of my money leaves me is by winning bigger pots and losing a lot more smaller pots. I guess I just need to work on my patience a little more and be more willing to toss a mediocre hand.

You should definatly stick to the micros until you build up a decsent sized bankroll. Just getting unlucky a few times at a higher stakes table will cause you to go bust.
Dont play drunk
stop at tipsy

I was joking about the drunk. My g/f won't let me play my money when the Budweiser is doing the thinking! LOL But, yeah, I'm gonna give that a try and stay at the micros for a while. I do fairly well there, but it's hard to get excited about an .08 win!

Also, would it be better for me to play fixed games or stay at the NL?

u should never ever ever min buy in to a cash table. it makes u a sitting duck. just remeber never buy in for more then 10% of ur stack GL

There are definite +EV ways to play shortstacked at a cash table. Just gotta know how to do it . Never ever ever say never ever ever.

Its not about working on patience or being able to fold mediocre hands, its being properly BR'd to play certain stakes. A $50 BR and playing 25NL is not being properly rolled. There are going to be times where you are going to hit variance, go on a bad streak, and lose big hands/pots. You need to have to the proper bankroll in order to play certain stakes so you can be able to handle these inevitable losses.

I understand, philthy. I was just saying that would make my game a little better. Oh, btw, could you please change that pic? It's scaring me!

What is wrong with Ellen Page?

KD is right, philthy also, you are a victim of your own bad play and or BRM. The whole thread supports this. Just remember, blaming sites for bad play or for a losing streak or some bad beats is a waste of time and misleading -- fooling yourself into thinking some site is 'out to get you' is just paranoid, and it skunks yr game.
GL, Ultimatebet is a good site, as are most others.

First of all, I don't know Ellen Page.

Second, I'm sure she's nice, just a little different.

Third, I wasn't completely blaming Ultimatebet for my bad luck. I know I can fold my hand anytime I want. But at the time I was having a bad day and was wanting to rant. But it compares nothing to the verbal beating I'm getting on here! LOL

Ellen Page is an actress
-X-men 3
-Hard Candy
-Juno
-The Tracey Fragments (avatar pic)

Larger pic of avatar and some other good looking women (IMO) can be found here: http://www.cardschat.com/f4/phind-philthy-avatar-part-2-a-116724/

Keep the avatar! (till something better gets posted in the other thread)

btw, the guy that restarted the phind philthy an avatar thread again was a genius... One can only hopy it rivals the orginal thread some day. http://www.cardschat.com/f4/phind-ph...contest-98930/

The verbal beating is just tough love about Bank Roll Management. Listen to the words of wisdom and unfortunately experience. I used to do the same thing, have a couple of wins, go on a heater and all of a sudden I am looking at $500 in my account from the $50 I started with, woohoo !!

Then I decide that I don't need to be playing the small games anymore and try the $200NL table, keep the streak going but for a higher payout. Then it happens, river gives the guy a flush, I can't believe he chased it down, now I have got to get that money back, another buyin ($200).

Then my top two pair run into trips !! Variance I say, now I have $100 left, damn I just had $500 !! I know I'll buy in short but just play premium hands. AA on the next deal, woohoo, get it all in to lose to two pair on the river, poker is rigged.

Now, same scenario as above but you are playing $10NL instead, three buyins down but still with $470 in your BR.

Yeah, duffer, I understand. I was just making light of the fact that I left myself out there to get beat on.

Oh, and Philthy, I changed my mind... I love the avy! I still don't know who the actress is, but I've never seen any of those movies.

All good movies. Well...IMO at least.

^^^LOL

I'll check some of those out, philthy!

Just because ur paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!! We all feel like that when the deck goes cold on us.

"I know I'm not a bad player . . ."

***HOW do you know you're not a bad player? This is a serious question.

Okay, I'll take it seriously then...

I wouldn't say I'm completely out of the fish stage, but who is. Everyone bluffs from time to time at a draw. But in a freeroll I might do that two times in a sticky situation and when I feel I have the upper hand. Ninety percent of the time I get beat with all my chips in its usually a bad beat. I don't throw them in without having a good hand. My hands played are high around 35%, but I'm working on that (and that's not in cash games, that's around 20%).

So, with that said, what should I be working on to become a better?

I see your point on seeing a lot of flops early, but I tend to do better when my percentage is down. Especially since most of the freerolls I'm in tend to have a lot of donks and fish in them. Maybe that's why.

And, yeah, I've already acknowledged the fact that my bankroll issue was a major factor.

Thanks for the insight.

I think you and I have similar stories. I have built a $70 bankroll at Doyles from nothing. I cashed in a couple of tourneys/freerolls then went to micro 10 person sit n gos. .10/.01 buy ins. Once I had a winning record on that level (by winning I mean 2nd or 1st, you cash in 3rd aswell but not enough to make any profit so I don't count it) I moved up to .45/.10 and so on and so on. I also allow myself to buy into any multi table sit n go or tourney that is $1 or less. My bankroll is building slowing but surely. You can increase your bankroll faster at the cash tables but you can lose it faster aswell.


Since hitting the $60 mark I have never gone below $55 except when my husband is drunk and plays on my account. It is a good thing he is cute and I am always able to get it back or he would be in the guest room.

LOL I wish I was cute!

The books I have read say the oppisite. When the blinds are small tighten up and as the blinds increase you may need to lossen.

Yeah, that's what I try to do. Not saying it works for me, but I'm a rock till about the third escalation, then I open up a bit. But I do that because of the constant all-ins that happen frequently. Not really because it's the best thing to do.

how much can 100 bucks play nl at .5 .10

Honestly, I dont view freeroll winnings as a bankroll if unless its a really big freeroll, to me a roll for online poker doesnt really even start till your over a hundred bux. And even then you shouldnt worry about it too much as you can just deposit to start over. If you really are interested in grinding it out with a couple bux, I strongly recommend reading the Chris Ferguson fulltilt blog on the subject, that bankroll management technique is pretty solid way to go, in fact for your situation probably the only way to go.