DON"S

I have a question about these concerning the rake. It seems the poker rooms is taking 10% of the cash here. That leaves 90% for 5 players to split. I know that is not exactly accurate but that is why I am asking this question. Will playing these eventually be a losing proposition because the rake is eating up your profits? Obviously winning 5 out of 10 of these will lose you money probably 6 out of 10 you break even. Does anyone know exactly how many you would have to win to make a profit if you played 100 of these. Also does any one here play these and profit from them?
They look so tempting but something seems a little off on their profitability.

I used to play these quite at bit. At Carbon I think the rake is 8%. That works out to needing to place mid-50ish % of time to profit. I'm NOT a math guy, so I found a site somewhere that had the breakdown of % in the money needed to break even, if I remember right, at 8% rake you need to win 54% of the time to break even. But that's just from memory, could be a little off there.

I probably played about 300 or so before I realized I could be more profitable at the standard single-table SnG's. Over that admittedly small sample I ran about 12-14% ROI. In comparison (and over an even smaller sample-size of 200ish regular SnG's) I'm running in excess of 20% ROI.

So, yes, DoN's are beatable, but there may be better options out there.

With rakeback at carbon it's basically 6% rake. I only play these as a change of pace if I am running terrible at cash gms. I've played between 100 to 110 games of these $1 DON's, and I have a ROI of 8%. That means with rakeback, I am winning about $10. Hardly worth the effort.

The blinds and antes climb too quickly so I am not comfortable throwing in more than a $1 at a time and pray.

For all players taken as a single group, poker is -EV since the sites and casinos take some money for fees and rake. It's the same for any form of poker except for those times when there are no-fee and no-rake promos in effect. Otherwise, they are always siphoning money out of the total pool that the players put in.

As to whether playing will be a losing proposition, that's where differential ability comes in. In the long run, for those whose ability relative to their opponents' is above average by enough to overcome the fees and rake, poker will be profitable. The rest (estimates run as high as 75-80%), will break even or lose.

I don't expect anything different than a website that has servers in place running these games around the clock. Poker isn't -EV if you're a winning player. I certainly wouldn't want to be providing a service like poker games and not charging a fee/rake. I see paying rake as standard and you shouldn't really calculate that in terms of your EV. You play you game in a +EV way, rake isn't ever going to matter. The way you say is that they are robbing you for money lol, hell if you begrudge paying a little fee for playing on THEIR server which costs THEM money, then don't play at all.



OP: They are profitable, but not by much. Most players playing these mass multi table them in order to receive rakeback, thus most of their profits coming from there. There are top players, up to the $100 limits, who are playing 20 tables at a time and maybe averaging 1-2% ROI but make the mass majority via rakeback. I know of someone who does this and makes $5.00 an hour, mass multi tabling but once you add his rakeback to his hourly, he earns in excess of $80.00 an hour.


On a personal level, I wouldn't bother with them, very boring, time consuming and the most boring form of poker. If you have a small BR though, I guess they are a safe bet.

Thank You
That was very informative

I used to play them on stars. Not to the 20 tables at once but i'd do 3 or 4. I like them because the likelihood of me cashing is 50% instead of 30. I just play in spare time and for fun mostly, not for sole income and to eat. It was a nice feeling cashing more often than not even if the cash was so much smaller. made me sad when i had a ton of chips but happy when i barely make it. Just nice to see those fireworks now and again. lol.

I like them because you can get distracted here and there and it's not the end of your game.

I love DONs. Been my bread and butter for a over a year now. First 10 handed on PS.. then Bodog after BF. Now 6 handed on Bovada. Tried the new 9 handed TONs, but didn't like them.

My secret is to always play the turbo DONs. Quicker games, less hands, but I find (or at least think) there are worst players in the turbos. I think the good nits want more hands and go to the regular DONs, that leaves more bad players in the turbos.

Seems to me there are always 1 or 2 players that don't have a chance. So odds of winning aren't 50% anymore. More like 60% or 75%. I think my ROI is much higher on DONs then it was when I was playing regular SNGs and I have much less variance.

Just remember goal of DONs is to cash, it is not to have the most chips at end of game. Once I get twice my starting stack, you can revert to super tight. Especially if it's near bubble time with 1 or 2 shorties.

BTW... rake for the $10 6 handed DONs are 5% on Bodova.