Discussion on LO8 and PLO8 starting hands

For limit this is what I see as good-excellent starting hands. Position is determined in the ( ) area .

A2xx (any)
A3xx suited A (any)
A3xx (Late)
A4xx suited A (late unraised)
Suited A w two low cards (late)
Suited A w 3 high cards (any)
Four cards 10-A
Four cards A-5
AA w two 2-5 (Any)
AA 2 two cards 10-K (any)
AA double suited (raise any)
23 w KK QQ JJ (late)

Anyone see any other hands that should be added here? Or ones that don't belong?

Also what would you change for PLO8 play vs LO8?

Some of the HI hands can be played from mid postion onwards, but the cards should be atleast nine and above. If the game is passive, you could play a lot of weaker big pair hands like KKT8. Also the value of 23 goes down if there are a lot of limps (A2/A3) or raises (A2,AA) cause the aces are likely to be gone.

PLO8 you can go with a bit wider selection of hands, but that depends a lot on the specifics of the table. HI hands go up in value as you can make people pay more for their low draws.

In my experience there are two of the same profitable ways to play PLO8 as in NLHE :TAG and LAG. And the hands shown are what should be used in TAG style, but sometimes you can get a bit creative

Flint....thanks or the extra ideas. I am always looking for ways to expand my game

I have to add that if it is folded around to you quite late you should raise quite wide (mostly with HI hands) even in limit to get it heads up. Also if there are a lot of limps the value of a HI hand goes up a bit as the ppl limping in are most likely holding small cards.

When playing remember position, people tend to forget that and just limp in from anywhere. This is especially important in pot limit as the last to act has the most control over the pot. Position is also very important in using LAG style as the winning % of the pots you bet increases with position.

You're focusing too much on the low hands. The other 2 cards in the hand matter a lot. A279 is a much much worse hand than A2KQ.

You can also loosen up your 23XX hands from late position if they have 2 other strong cards to go with it. 2♠3♣4♥K♠ or 2♠3♣J♥10♠ play pretty well with position & initiative. Also, your big pair hands with other high cards, or more speculative lows can also be played (like KKA4).

PLO8 is a lot different, and the value of your 23xx hands, and other speculative low hands like A45 or 3456 go way up in value. High hands also increase in value, since more pots are played heads up.

I completely agree with this. The other 2 cards matter greatly in H/L. you want to look for a complete hand to raise with... something like the A2KQ where you are going to have a chance to hit the nut straight or flush (which ultimately is what you want to achieve). Also... when you hit the nut low... if you dont have anything to win the high with.. just call dont re-raise... this might be some very obvious advice but it is amazing how many people re-raise with the nut low and nothing but ace high or a pair. (Unless you think he only has 2 pair and will not call your raise, obviously you have to feel it out... but dont reraise when you think he has a good high hand and will call)

Excellent replies so far. There is also some overlap and vaguaries in some of the starting hands...

Four cards 10-A (Yes, but understand that even a single suitedness adds value. And double is raisable. And that AJ and KQ suited is better than AK and QJ suited. Little things but they matter.)
Four cards A-5 (A235 better than A345. Ace suited matters. 34 suited does not)
AA w two 2-5 (Any) (Suited ace raisable in late, double suited raisble any position)
AA 2 two cards 10-K (any) (Pretty much. Again, KQ better than JT)
AA double suited (raise any) (Here is where I'd disagree, depending on the cards. Double suited where there are are multi-gappers with little low potential (i.e. AA69) can be worrisome in limit. All the lows will call. IN PLO8, it is easier to isolate with a pot size bet. Just checked to be sure - pg 63/64 Hwang limps in EP with suited pocket aces, no straight potential. And that's in PLO, not O8 (!!). No low potential in O8 is never the cat's meow until post-flop.

Was nice seeing ya at my O8 table the other day. Must do it again soon!

Much appreciated. I agree with you 100%. I list A2xx as a hand that is playable for one bet. If there is a raise before me or I am early to act then I will always consider what xx may equal. Now that you have pointed it out I will even be more aware of it. Any hand with a 9 in it is something I am watching for as well. This is why I love CC. Thanks for the reply.

Dive...thanks for the reply. Great points. Yes it was great to finally play at an O8 table with you.