Concepts I have learned from CC.

This is a discussion on Concepts I have learned from CC. within the online poker forums, in the Learning Poker section; **These are the most basic concepts in my opinion and intermediate and advanced players may fall asleep reading what they know simply by instinct.** These ...
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  #1
5th August 2009, 5:19 PM
Sharesol
 
Poker at: Carbon poker
Game: NL Holdem
Concepts I have learned from CC.

**These are the most basic concepts in my opinion and intermediate and advanced players may fall asleep reading what they know simply by instinct.**
These are some concepts I have picked up in my first month at CC, I thought it would be a helpful to myself and hopefully others to have them discussed here.


I hope this post will have 2 effects:

1) Amplify the good and correct the bad in the techniques I have adapted since becoming a member here.

2) Help players, new and intermediate, in some of the beginning concepts and techniques.

Disclaimer: I am not saying any of these techniques are perfect, or even right, it is just what I have picked up since playing here. Also these are primarily for the lowest limits of play in NL holdem.

Concept 1)
Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
This is a lesson I had to learn with multiple applications.
1a) First one is the obvious that everyone here preaches about: Bank Roll Management. Never Ever Ever put all your money onto one table or even a large % of it.
1b) Never put all your chips in the pot unless the %'s are right. You should be very weary of putting all your $ in on one pot. You should not only know that your hand is a good one (preferably one of the best) but you should also
have an idea of your opponent's range. (This is me beginning to grasp Sklansky dollars)

Concept 2)
If you have a big/huge hand preflop (AA, KK, QQ, AKs etc. depending on how tight of a player you are) You don't want 6 people to see the flop, thus you should raise to lower the chance your hand gets cracked.

Concept 3)
If your used to playing with 10 people on a table, and then all the sudden you make final table in a MTT or you decide to play a SNG, your strategy and your opening hands should change significantly as the # of players decreases. Simple concept.

Concept 4)
On the bubble you should do one of 2 things: Get looser or get tighter.
Reason to get looser: You can theoretically steal a lot of blinds and build your stack, thus finishing higher in the tournament.
******Reason to get tighter: It seems that just about everyone knows the get looser rule. There is another common CC idea that states that if the whole table is loose, you should be tight. So if 2/3 of your table is stealing blinds, just play tight and sucker one of them in.

Concept 5)
This is the most important concept to me as it has cost me the most.
Play when you are at your best, when you lose big take a break. Do some stretches or take a power nap before a session. You wouldn't believe how much money you save/make by playing with a sharp mind and rested body.

Thanks for reading and look forward to discussion
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  #2
5th August 2009, 5:22 PM
Irexes
 
Online Poker at: Stars
Game: MTTs & Ring
There's a lot to discuss in each of those, but great post
  #3
5th August 2009, 5:22 PM
Syracuseeee
 
Poker at: Fulltilt
Game: NL Holdem
Well said, you obviouslly put some thought into it. Its amazing how we forget the little things
  #4
5th August 2009, 6:35 PM
Sharesol
 
Online Poker at: Carbon poker
Game: NL Holdem
Ok, I have a hand example that just happend to throw in this thread as well that may be helpful to some people reading.

You know that someone is agreesive (intentional misspelling, some people may get it) and you see them, bluff, c bet, etc.

you have AKs, they raised preflop 5xBB your acting last, its just the two of you.

flop: QJ2 Rainbow,
Aggreesive bets. 5x BB
I fold.
Why: Because I know that my only true out is a 10. I'm not going to do the math (lazy) but its about a 10% chance? What is going to happen If I call and it misses: 90% of the time?
he will bet big again and I will fold because there is only a 5% chance of my out.
What will happen if that miracle card comes? He will bet again, I will raise he will fold. so 10% of the time I'm winning some chips but I've landed in a situation where 90% of the time I'm losing them, so I'm going to go ahead and make the correct decision to fold (and show) my hand. I find that showing a good fold like this makes aggressive people respect my plays more.

Ever since that hand while I've been typing this post the aggressive player has folded to my every re-raise (1 bluffed, 2 times I've had the hand.)

Last edited by Sharesol : 5th August 2009 at 6:48 PM.
  #5
12th August 2009, 1:17 AM
SuperDonk
 
Poker at: PokerStars
Game: Holdem
re: Concepts I have learned from CC. poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharesol
...Why: Because I know that my only true out is a 10. I'm not going to do the math (lazy) but it's about a 10% chance?
...
I have something that will help you approximate the odds when OTB (over the board). You need a 10, which is 4 outs, to win. If you only have one card to come, that is close 4 outs divided by 50 cards, or 8%, which equals 4 outs times 2. If you have two cards to come, multiply by 2 again, which gives you about 16% to make your straight. IOW, multiply your number of outs times two times the number of cards to come (maximum of 2). Most times this will get you within 2% of the real number.

I did a quick calculation and, if I did my math right (and that's a mighty big IF), your actual chances of making the straight (with no information about the your opp's cards) were 1 - (43C2)/(47C2) = 16.5% (very close to the approximation).

I'm curious why you didn't count A and K as outs? I would have given you 10 outs (A, K, and T) and approx. 40%.
  #6
12th August 2009, 1:29 AM
D'wilius
 
Online Poker at: Pokerstars
Game: 8-game
When you have AK overs, counting them both as outs on JQ raised flop isn't a good idea imo, very often villains will have AQ/QK/AJ, less likely sets or two pair, maybe unimproved pairs where A or K are good, or sometimes even a draw where AK are ahead but will fill a straight if one of them hit. I'd guess usually either an A or K was good along with T, but without a good read it can be hard to tell where you are when A or K hit.

Last edited by D'wilius : 12th August 2009 at 1:43 AM.
  #7
12th August 2009, 1:54 AM
cardplayer52
 
Poker at: full tilt
Game: holdem
concept 6) big hands big pots small hand small pots. the best way to build a big pot is to bet. never mind those fancy i'll check to fool them plays bet big hands to build the pot.

and there's a 4 2 rule. if there two cards to come multiply your outs by 4. if there's only one card to come multiply your outs by 2. but what i do is what i call the 4 2 + 2 rule. so if you got 4 outs with 2 cards to come it would be 4X4= 16 + 2 = 18% i think the real % if 17.5. which is closer to 18 than 16. but its alot more acurate just to print up a chart and keep it next to you while you play.

As for the villian you going to learn how to bluff him when you don't have a hand and check call to the river with hands like 2nd or 3rd pair. This isnt easy at 1st but its the only way to beat them.
  #8
12th August 2009, 5:32 AM
Theblueduce
 
Online Poker at: Where I win
Game: Hold EM
Nice post. Thanks for contributing. Lots of good truth in your words.
  #9
12th August 2009, 7:01 AM
RA2000
 
Poker at: Pokerstars
Game: holdem
Very good concepts!
You learned a lot!
But keep on learning, you will never stop....
  #10
12th August 2009, 3:24 PM
Sharesol
 
Online Poker at: Carbon poker
Game: NL Holdem
re: Concepts I have learned from CC. poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDonk
I have something that will help you approximate the odds when OTB (over the board). You need a 10, which is 4 outs, to win. If you only have one card to come, that is close 4 outs divided by 50 cards, or 8%, which equals 4 outs times 2. If you have two cards to come, multiply by 2 again, which gives you about 16% to make your straight. IOW, multiply your number of outs times two times the number of cards to come (maximum of 2). Most times this will get you within 2% of the real number.

I did a quick calculation and, if I did my math right (and that's a mighty big IF), your actual chances of making the straight (with no information about the your opp's cards) were 1 - (43C2)/(47C2) = 16.5% (very close to the approximation).

I'm curious why you didn't count A and K as outs? I would have given you 10 outs (A, K, and T) and approx. 40%.
Well I could have however, if an A or a K came up then I'd be worried about a straight. so the only "true" out to make my hand certain to win was the 10. But thats not to say an A or a K wouldn't have helped.
  #11
12th August 2009, 3:42 PM
TPC
 
Poker at: Full Tilt
Game: Holdem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharesol
What will happen if that miracle card comes? He will bet again, I will raise he will fold. so 10% of the time I'm winning some chips but I've landed in a situation where 90% of the time I'm losing them, so I'm going to go ahead and make the correct decision to fold (and show) my hand. I find that showing a good fold like this makes aggressive people respect my plays more.

Ever since that hand while I've been typing this post the aggressive player has folded to my every re-raise (1 bluffed, 2 times I've had the hand.)
Never show your hand!!! Your assumption is wrong. All you are doing is giving away free information which is never a good thing. Quit doing this!!! When people show me their hand, all it does is let me know I put the on the correct range to begin with. All you are doing is reassuring me and giving me more confidence in my play. Showing your folds or bluffs is a horrible play and shouldn't be used at the micro limits. There are times where it's good in higher limit games with better players. But the stakes you are playing this is a terrible idea!!
  #12
12th August 2009, 7:04 PM
Sharesol
 
Online Poker at: Carbon poker
Game: NL Holdem
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriggaLos
Never show your hand!!! Your assumption is wrong. All you are doing is giving away free information which is never a good thing. Quit doing this!!! When people show me their hand, all it does is let me know I put the on the correct range to begin with. All you are doing is reassuring me and giving me more confidence in my play. Showing your folds or bluffs is a horrible play and shouldn't be used at the micro limits. There are times where it's good in higher limit games with better players. But the stakes you are playing this is a terrible idea!!
Maybe I'm ahead of my game and should be playing at the higher limits /flex.

Haha just kidding thanks for the advice, I'll strongly take this into consideration. One question though, if this is giving people correct information about you wouldn't you want to do it even less in the higher stakes?
  #13
13th August 2009, 12:20 AM
TPC
 
Poker at: Full Tilt
Game: Holdem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharesol
Maybe I'm ahead of my game and should be playing at the higher limits /flex.

Haha just kidding thanks for the advice, I'll strongly take this into consideration. One question though, if this is giving people correct information about you wouldn't you want to do it even less in the higher stakes?

No, in higher stakes it's good to show a bluff to get some action later. However, unless you have a really good read on someone I don't see how showing a good laydown helps any. I would just rather say I layed down the nut straight there, than actually show it. Showing your cards when you don't have too is pretty much never a good idea. That's what I stick too anyway.
  #14
13th August 2009, 1:03 AM
ckingriches
 
Online Poker at: Full Tilt
Game: holdem
If you show your cards at any level, you must be assuming you're smarter than those you're showing them to. Unfortunately, that's usually not the case, and certainly not something you can count on.

Bottom line is that giving away information can only help your opponent. That being said, I sometimes show my cards, and it's because 1) the stakes are pretty low and 2) I play mostly for fun and enjoy showing my AA, quads and straight flushes.
 



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