Change of pace - 5 Card Draw (Micro)

I usually sit at the 5-10NL tables where I usually flirt with playing cards on a casual basis. So for a change of pace from Hold'em, I decided it's time to start learning the draw games. I know the gambit of HORSE, so I figured this might be fun.

I started with 5 Card Draw 2NL (yes I know 2NL, there to get a feel for the game, etc.) I've played about a week on my usual casual pace (1 to 1.5 hours a night).

The first couple sessions where, well interesting. It took me 2.5 sessions before I started to get out of the Hold'em and start paying attention to things, like how many cards they draw, folding stupid hands and just getting the general feel for the game.

After about a week and half I'm up about 2-3 buy-ins (Yeah I know, nothing to cheer about, but hey I'm not losing...... yet LOL). I feel I have an "ok" grasp for the game. What I was wondering if there are any tips/book/sites that anyone can point me too so I can learn a bit more before I move back up to my normal levels. Any direction would be appreciated.



p.s. I have to admit that it has been a fun, stress filled week and half of playing poker. Well deserved break from the norm.

Wow, you mean there is another 5CD player out there. I enjoy this game a lot too, but have pretty much given it up since no one plays it anymore. As far as books go, I searched for one myself about a year ago and the only thing I came up with was the original Super System (NOT Super System 2) has one chapter dedicated to the game. I guess it didn't make the cut for the new one since the game has lost much of its popularity.

The chapter in Super System was written by Mike Caro though, who was once and is probably still credited with being the best 5CD player in the world. I read the chapter about a year ago and, unfortunately, I really don't remember much about it. I borrowed the book, so I don't have one to check out right now. I don't remember it being anything too exciting, but in a field of nothing else, I guess that's all there is.

Just as a side note, I remember Mike Caro complainig about the death of 5CD recently, or semi-recently. His issue was that the WSOP has dozens and dozens of events at all buy-in levels and virtually every format imaginable yet there is NOT ONE game of 5CD anywhere on the schedule. So sad, this is such a fun game, but no one plays anymore.

Cool, I'll have to go look for that chapter on it.

I don't think it's a bad game, I've been loving it for a change of pace. That is how I got to learn all the other HORSE type games.

I think it's good to try out some different styles of poker. I believe it gives you a different way of thinking and that can actually open some other thought lines in the previous styles of play.

5CD is pretty mechanical. The lowball variations (2-7TD, KCL) have more room for an edge. There's a reason no one spreads 5CD anymore.

I don't know.... I think there's plenty of room for creativity in 5CD since you have so little info on your opponents possible hand. Think about it. No shared cards, no exposed cards, all kinds of room for creativity.

As for why no one spreads it anymore, the cynic in me wants to say its because a) its a limit game and B) there are fewer betting rounds which leads to smaller pots and C) less rake for the casinos. But, that's just the cynic in me.

I was comparing 5CD to other draw games, not hold'em.

Also, just because there are no exposed cards doesn't mean much. You can usually figure out what sort of hand your opponent has by how many cards he draws.

I don't play any of the lowball games yet, but 5CD allows for a pretty big edge and lower variance than the lowball games. Bad players do not last long in these games. I've dedicated the past few months to 5CD and I'm loving the change of pace - it's a game where there is a large gap between a good and a bad player, and the game can be quite profitable.

I've heard that lowball games supplanted 5CD in casinos because they injected greater variance and gave the fish a better chance.

Yes and no I would say... often people will drag an A w a pr (repping trips) or draw one with trips (repping 2 pr or a fl or str8 draw). You have to know your opponent's tendencies, not just how many she draws...

Agree. It's relatively easy to mix-up your play and draw straightforward a certain % of the time and draw to disguise your hand a certain % of time. The key is to not get predictable based upon what you draw. But, there is much more to draw than just that.

Back to the OP's original question. Does anyone else know of anything in print out there anywhere that deals w/ 5CD. Hopefully something that goes into some depth, percentages, odds, detailed strategies etc.? I'm planning on re-reading Super System, but is there anything else? Something I missed in my first search about a year ago? Anything?

This was a technique I noticed from one of the players at the table a couple of days ago. I have been working this in where it applies to certain players that I have noted with certain tendencies.

Have to say it's been working very well for my BR.

This has been a good week so far. I only had one bad bet when someone drew out 4 of a kind vs my Pat FH. That hurt. :P

I've been looking for Caro books, but I'm unsure if he ever put out one dedicated to 5CD or not?

If he did, I haven't been able to find it. I do remember that Doyle said that of all the authors of the various sections of Super System, Caro was the only one who did all his own research, charts, calculations, etc. If he put that much work into it, you'd think he would have published a book somewhere along the line.

Your age is definitely showing thru here ^ (lol).

I imagine the 5cd micro tables on Fulltilt will be filling up with older folks who are frustrated with NLHE tables & looking for a reminder of days gone by. I might just have to play on them a bit, lol. (I've played a bit of 5cd online but not that much of it & not at all on Fulltilt.. 'yet'). I did notice there was an FTOPS 5cd

i love 5cd, i play it both on pokerstars and now i just got money especially for the nl and pl 5cd on fulltilt.

one sick move, and works most of the time at this micro stakes, is to represent a set, easy to do, even without anything, just raise a guy, draw 2 cards and instant bet, they won't be to keen on calling unless they have 2 pair at least, and since most hand delt are usually just 1 pair types it will work tons, and now that we can play this as nl or pl on fulltilt, there is a lot more preasure you can put on opponents.

I just finished playing the 5CD PL ftfb. Made it just above halfway through the fieldof 500 players. This was my first 5CD at tilt. I enjoyed it and yes this was the very first game I learned as a kid growing up. I could see this being a nice break from nlhe. bigbigbucs

Yeah, I'll even admit that it's been nice to go back to some of those old memories when you were just learning poker. Been a bit since I've played penny ante or dealer's choice with the family LOL.

Breaks are good.

I'll have to check into the tourney's for 5CD. Would be a blast to try one.

I like 5cd. It was what I learned poker with and have played it for many years. In fact up until I saw Moneymaker win the WSOP and then I had to start learning a new type of poker.

Ive played 7 card and 5 card and all of the variations but still like a good game of 5cd.

I am on a very limited budget so I mainly play on PS in their freerolls to win tickets to the bigger money freerolls.

I know of nothing in print to help. I just google around and read all od the articles that I can and get on some of the forums. As you probably noticed cc has some good people with helpful info.