Cash- If you would shove preflop, right to shove on flop UTG?

#1 2nd August 2009, 12:33 AM

Lets say you were unable to get it all in preflop but you wanted to. Flop you are utg. Right to shove regardless of board? If not, what if it is all rags( 3,6,8) and you have AA.

#2 2nd August 2009, 1:21 AM

Unless you have less than 10 or so BBs I would say it's almost never right to shove on the flop UTG. You should be sticking out a feeler bet which still holds an air of formidability if you're trying to protect aces. Shove on the turn if you feel you have the best of it then.

#3 2nd August 2009, 9:39 PM

You must be playing pot limit if you could not get it all in preflop. However, I do not agree with slow playing AA. It does depend on how much you have. If you are under 10-15 BB, then I would shove after the flop. If you have 15+, I would bet 10-15X the bb after flop and all in after turn.

#4 2nd August 2009, 10:33 PM

get as much in as you can preflop, as long as you don't see any draws, i would pot size bet the flop. But if you see a reraise, well on the flop, you have to think does he have a set.
2NL Bet out .10
i know it may seam, like a lot, but i have been called by up to 3 with that size of a bet, after that i may go all-in, based on the flop.
It has worked, for me, thought one of the ones, who called had an A10, he hit a 10 on the flop, but folded it...
I would say yes, well UTG.
I think most will say the same.

#5 2nd August 2009, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkh

Lets say you were unable to get it all in preflop but you wanted to. Flop you are utg. Right to shove regardless of board? If not, what if it is all rags( 3,6,8) and you have AA.

how much did you get in preflop, and how much did you have behind? how many people are left in the hand? knowing your effective stack size should help in those situations, and some reads on the opponents wouldn't hurt. generally, on a rag flop if your shove will not be something like 5 times the pot, perhaps it would be the right move...

#6 2nd August 2009, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benevg

how much did you get in preflop, and how much did you have behind? how many people are left in the hand? knowing your effective stack size should help in those situations, and some reads on the opponents wouldn't hurt. generally, on a rag flop if your shove will not be something like 5 times the pot, perhaps it would be the right move...

I dont agree with that at all.

On a dry flop, what will call you that you beat?

You most likely have the best hand, so why fold out so many hands you beat?

Unless a shove is a pot sized bet then I dont think shoving dry flops with AA is the right thing to do.

#7 2nd August 2009, 11:52 PM

you don't agree perhaps because you missed the "not" in bold? basically, i said an overbet will not be correct, too.

however, there are many things that could call a decent all-in bet on a 863 flop, especially in microstakes poker. A8 would, 75 would, etc. heck, i know some people would even call with a hand like K6....

#8 3rd August 2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benevg

you don't agree perhaps because you missed the "not" in bold? basically, i said an overbet will not be correct, too.

however, there are many things that could call a decent all-in bet on a 863 flop, especially in microstakes poker. A8 would, 75 would, etc. heck, i know some people would even call with a hand like K6....

WTF

The bit in bold.. your advice...is that so long as a shove isn't 5 times the pot then perhaps it is the right move.

The implication is that if a shove is less than 5 times the pot, i.e. 4 times the pot then it is the right thing to do.

Its both vague and wrong.

#9 3rd August 2009, 12:42 AM

LOL

not really going to argue implications with you, but I find it interesting that you are ignoring the more important part of my post (again) and catching on to my flaws in expression.

even if the implication is what you claim it is (and i could argue about the implications of your post too, but won't bother - because shoving wet flops is so much better than dry ones), i corrected myself in the next post, so you could leave it at that? ... wait, what am i saying, of course not. i am sorry to have disturbed your peace of mind by posting something vague in a public forum.

#10 3rd August 2009, 8:32 AM

Well I'm just looking for the in general or math I guess. But as always, it seems to be dependant on the villian.

But what about opponents holding JJ-KK. Isn't that a good chance they'll call you down.

#11 3rd August 2009, 10:24 AM

Depends on the table and your image!
If your image is loose and the players are also playing loose you could move all in preflop...
Otherwise raise and play the flop....

#12 3rd August 2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkh

Well I'm just looking for the in general or math I guess. But as always, it seems to be dependant on the villian.

But what about opponents holding JJ-KK. Isn't that a good chance they'll call you down.

Isnt there a good chance they would reraise preflop?

#13 3rd August 2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkh

Well I'm just looking for the in general or math I guess. But as always, it seems to be dependant on the villian.

But what about opponents holding JJ-KK. Isn't that a good chance they'll call you down.

yes there is, but you are forgetting, there are the odds for them to have AA.

Quote:

gkh Lets say you were unable to get it all in preflop but you wanted to. Flop you are utg. Right to shove regardless of board? If not, what if it is all rags( 3,6,8) and you have AA.

If they reraise you on this flop, you have to think they have a set.
I know coz i messed up, i only did a mid raise, from UTG, or SB, the flop was J2J, coz of that mid raise, he called with pocket 2s.

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