Cash Games Vs SNGS

I cant work cash games out! I can win fairly consistantly at 9/18/27/45 and 90 man sngs with an roi of about 15% which is good but as soon as i sit down on a cash table I seem to be losing around 8bb/100 which is the direct opposite of what anyone would like. I have read harrington on cash which helped a bit but not massively! Any suggestions on ways to improve other than keep playing? Just cant work out where im going wrong as i seem to win nicely for around an hour or so then get hit with about 5 or 6 coolers and im down 4 buy ins!

Thanks in advance for any advice!

We seem to be very similar. Ive been playing for several years now and as I look back on my stats the only clear thing is that I am only a consistent winning player at SnG's.

That's a good thing but like you, Im interested in other things such as cash tables. The one thing Im doing different at cash tables and having a little better results is Ive began multi-tableling 9 person 0.05/0.10 cash tables. (When I say multi-tabeling I just mean 2 or 3 tables).

By doing this I play very tight and solid. The difference with multi-tableing you see so many more hands that you might lose a couple of dollars on two tables but then hit your set against a big hand and double up on another. Ive quit trying to get cute with cash tables. If I have the hand I bet it, if I dont I get away from it.

But remember lastly, youre in it to make money. If SnG's is where youre best at then Id spend most of my time there. Just dabble at the cash tables until you find you're comfortable and profitable there.

Goodluck

thanks for the advice i currently multi table between 10 and 24 tables so i dont think that will do much for tightening up my game but perhaps im trying to follow my sng style to much as i can play that many sngs and win i may try and reduce the number of tables i play at cash games and take the losses as practice until i get my game right.

Do you have PT or HEM? Also, are you fairly new to cash games? I know it's hard to adjust from SnG's to Cash games, and there's a lot of good articles on this site on how to transfer. Go to the HA section and read some of the great articles, it help me transfer my game.

yes i have hem and a nice hud setup i think im struggling to work out reads on players based on the stats and my bad new here whats the HA section as i would like all the help i can get in the transition as i would like another game format as i havent always got 3-4 hours to multi table sngs might fancy a game for half an hour.

I strictly play the cash tables, aside from the private tourneys. But the difference between us is I mostly play Omaha H/L. And a major key to my (albeit limited) success is taking notes on my opponents. Sadly, I doubt it works for NLHE, as there are so many more players at so many more tables.

What I do is usually wait until the blinds come to me when I sit down, and just watch. I might even watch a table from the rail before joining. In absence of already knowing some of your opponents, it might give you a tiny edge. I know people who multi-table will laugh at this, and have their own formulas, but whatever works for ya.

What site do you play on hoops? and what's your screen name?

HA is the (Ring Game /or/ Tournament) Hand Analysis section from the front page.

Maybe if you played fewer tables and concentrate on playing poker, your results would be better? 10-24 tables is entirely too many, I think, esp on Cash tables. With this many tables, there is no way you can be keeping up with each opponent's style of play, I'd think. And, that should be a consideration in Cash tables. GL, Wally

The 2 are different animals. I have seen many SNG players sit at cash games and not make many changes to their play and either lose big (short term) or gain very little. Haven't read Harrington on cash yet, but if your playing at the micro's 25nl and below you have to be selective about what you actually implement from HOC from what I have heard.

Read these may give you a bit of insight:
Special 1k Post: So You Want To Become a Cash Game Player (A Guide)
10k post: micro stakes full ring guide [long]
Special 2k Post: So You Want To Become a WINNING Cash Game Player

I think rush poker will bring cash back to the front above sng. Most cash players hate that people 24 table with a sick setup. Now rush will make players better and get the average casino regular to online.

basically if you play cash you generally are risking more than you are when playing in sit n gos, the style of play is completely different in both, e.g. the cash games are more aggressive and you will generally see flops with more hands. What you have to do is play to your strengths and what you are most experienced at. If you are a tournament player, plays the sit n gos, if you are a cash game player play cash game tables maybe more that 1 table.
adsthepro

There are HUGE differences from SNG play & Cash Game play. I can't understand why you'd be considering multi-tabling similiarly to how you've been playing SNG's when first making a transition to cash tables??

I don't know what I'd recommend.... but maybe something similiar to when you were first getting started with SNG's (ie. start at the bottom & work your way up).

You've lost me here? How will 'rush poker' make players better?... when you're not playing with reads on opponents & exploiting their weaknesses?

Have you played elsewhere online (aside from the last 3weeks on Pokerstars?).
PTR claims that you are playing 51% looser preflop than optimal.... 55% less aggressive preflop than optimal & showdown 36% more than optimal. Maybe try tightening up a TON.. and playing hands more aggressively in position preflop?

Why would a casino regular (who isn't already online) want to go from 18-25 hands/hour to 3-400/hour when they haven't made the move from live tables yet ...

Focus on isolating fish while in position... don't be the fish playing out of position with marginal holdings.
Rarely play hands in SB... instead of thinking of why not play the hand in SB... think of reasons why you'd consider playing the hand.
Don't get involved with SS's who are obviously pot committing themselves while on a marginal holding... and don't think they'll ever let go of their hand if they've got 1/3 of their stack in the pot (ie. don't attempt to bet a SS off a hand (ie. <20bb's) with a marginal holding).

... the list goes on... but wouldn't know unless you were to post some HandHistories in the forum. There are some really good cash game players on this forum and many are very helpful/generous with their posts/advice.

Yes this is what has been going through my head i think i have got carried away with thinking as a sng player i can do it why not on cash tables so i will move down to 2 - 3 where i can observe alot more and change my game accordingly thanks for the advice

Yeh i used to play at pokerroom.com but that was over a year ago and havent played online for a long time hence recently starting at pokerstars and for the life of me cant remember my s/n lol but didnt play cash games there anyways. I think your right completely my game isnt suited for cash games but does pretty well at sngs. so im going to take you input from the previous post and play small only a couple of tables until i can get a play style that works for cash games.

thanks again for your help

The reason being is to get more hands. Infact I don't play online cuz of huds. I know truly I need to play online. If I really want to become a big tournament player I'm going to have to play online. Rush poker is new so now the playing feild is basically even. I want to be that new generation of online poker players.

Anyone that is 10-24 tabling is almost certainly using a HUD and playing ABC bot poker, so you don't try to keep up with opponent's style. When it's your turn, you glance at the cards, the pot odds and the villains numbers and just click. Then move on to the next table. And yes, it is quite a bit more profitable (assuming you make the right adjustments and are a solid player).

And I'd say multi-tabling is much easier on cash than on tourneys, with the possible exception of STTs where you crank 'em up close together and they don't run long enough for blinds to get high. With cash you're constantly reloading when you're down, you don't have to watch M's and Q's and keep up with inflection points. 24 MTT's with blinds & antes all over the place would give me an aneurysm. I play up to 8 cash tables quite comfortably, but over 4 tourneys at a time and I get frantic. Hat's off to those who can pull it off!

Care to explain your dislike of HUDs? I probably know what you'll say, but I'm curious nonetheless. I never understand this...

For me its the opposite.I play much better in cash games than in sng's.I seem to have a lot more patience and discipline in cash games.You say you do ok in the first hour,after that maybe find another table,I find that helps me.

Replied to your identical PM, reposting here:

"ABC" refers to a very strict, tight, by-the-book poker style. Hardly any variation, very predictable, etc. You'll often hear people referring to "ABC poker" or an "ABC player." It's not a bad style, just not a very profitable one outside of multi-tabling because you don't take many chances, bluff, or push edges, however it's less swingy for the same reasons. It's often the suggested style for beginners who are still learning the nuances of the game and don't know how to play more than their cards yet. It does suit multi-tabling well where you're typically playing a tighter, more conservative game and don't have the time or reads to make clever moves.

"Bot" in this context just means a robot-like style, without much thought or clever plays. The term can also refer to cheat software that plays poker for you -- of course I wasn't referring to that. I have absolutely no love for cheaters.

A HUD (heads up display) is not the same as a tracking software package like PT or HEM, however both include a HUD feature. There are also some other HUDs but the ones from those software packages are by far the most popular. A HUD merely displays player stats on top of the table(s). You typically configure your HUD to display whatever stats your prefer, and this is crucial when multi-tabling because it's the only reliable way to read people. Some misinformed (I'll stop just short of saying ignorant) people consider HUDs or tracking software cheating, but they're not. In online poker you don't have physical reads, your opponents' stats are all you really have to go by. All of the major poker rooms allow and even officially bless HUDs and tracking software. Where the line blurs however is with using data-mined hands rather than just the hands you've collected yourself from playing -- most sites disallow this practice. And I have both PT3 and HEM, but prefer and use HEM exclusively now.

So the combination of those things often converge when you're talking about multi-tabling, especially massively multi-tabling like the 20-24 tables we were discussing in that thread. It's virtually impossible to play anything but an ABC bot style with a HUD because you only have a couple of seconds to make every decision.

I think I'm alot better in a SNG format but Cash game is more profitable I believe

If you triple your buy in just leave the table and sit again but now you have the 2 extra buying in your BR