Cash games? give up or stick it out?

So I started playing cash games on FTP cuz of Take 2. It was too good of an offer to pass up. Even if I finished down at the tables I'd still get a nice payout at the end of the promotion. The play at 2NL is horrid. Normally, that'd be great. Not the way I run tho. I tend to win small pots, and lose big ones. Yesterday, I sit down at a table get dealt KK's late position. I make standard 3xbb raise, and one guy calls me with KJ. He hits a jack on the flop and I take a fifty cent pot off him. So next orbit or so I'm dealt A-K make 3xbb raise and this time he shoves his stack into me. I call he's got A-J and hits a straight and I lose and he quickly leaves the table. I look him up and he's down like 900$ at the tables. The day before that someone called my all-in preflop shove of Aces with K-J suited and hit a straight and won. Someone actually shoved pocket 66's into my KK's preflop and I couldn't believe what they turned over. The board came 234Q5 and lost to another straight. So I've played a little less than 2,000 hands but I really can't seem to get anything going. When I do hit a big hand there's usually a possibility of a better hand on the board and I have to keep the pot small. Do I have to stick it out for like 10,000 hands and then see where I'm at? and just believe that if this keeps up I'm eventually gonna turn a profit. It just doesn't seem like it.

It may not take 10k hands, but if you started out with a few big losses it could take some time for profit to show. If you find the cash games more fun than SNGs or MTTs then I say yes, stick with it. It could be that your tournament strategy is running over into your cash game and causing a leak in your game, but if you feel you are playing well and having fun then keep with cash games. You will eventually show a profit.

10k min is needed

LOL stop playing holdem...thats the secret.

http://www.cardschat.com/f46/ (http://www.cardschat.com/f46/)
-That's the link for complaining about bad beats and stuff.

If you hit the back button out of this thready and look at 2 of the stickied threads you'll also see 2 very basic guides to follow for beating cash games at the micros.

The more you play the better you will get, try to change your game little. I have been sucked out on the last five tourneys I have played in. But that story is for another thread GL

Try omaha instead.

While the content of the OP is worthy of the Bad Beats section, the question is clearly correct here.

I will make the assumption that coolnout was originally not a ring player, and felt comfortable in SnG's and/or MTT's.

There is such a difference between the versions of the game that it should be continuously addresses both personally and in these threads.

I'm a tourney guy, ring is too dangerous for me, as evidenced by me totally wiping out the last remnants of my Bodog BR last night after getting it up 4x. Not a huge disappointment as I am no fan of bodog.

I do well in tourneys/SnG's. I've basically only deposited in order to retrieve my winnings.

My risks going into each event is well defined. I can not lose my entire bankroll in the very short time frame of 2 or 3 hands. Ring on the other hand does offer me (you) the opportunity to go busto before I ever realized I was on tilt.

There are more than a few players here who excel at the ring game. I am not one of them. I know this.

Ring game is alot different than Tourney-style play (I'm guessing you're a tourney player.. sng & mtt.... as dj has also presumed.. i'm sure correctly).
I found I had alot of habits I'd picked up from playing SNG's that I had to get rid of while playing cash tables.
Know that players will call you down with weak draws as alot of the time they will be getting the implied odds to do so (especially if you're unable to let go of an overpr. or TPTK). When I'm able to identify a player on the table who is playing real tight and seems unable to let go of TPTK or big pr., I will be more apt. to call in position with stuff like 53s, 86s, etc. and will always call with any pp in hopes of hitting a set and stacking off my opponent.

I'd suggest reading up on how to play cash tables before making a go of it. My own personal experience also was to just start out at 5NL instead of 2NL.

My experience during Take2 was similiar to your own for the most part. I would grind away taking down smaller pots, occassionally setting up villain (meta game) and get my money in as a huge fav. (on turn), only to lose to the miracle card on the river (some really bad play in there too.. ie. calling a turn shove with a gutter, etc.). Over the longrun if I'm playing decently, this will come around. I played maybe 8,000 hands in total during Take2 and ended up +0.34BB/100 (lots of grinding to make up for all those badbeats, lol).

Another suggestion.... I will always be very selective when sitting down at a table and if I don't find the particular table to be profitable.. I'm outta there. I always use a table finder.
When you find a player who plays bad, sucksout on you, takes your stack & leaves.... add him to your 'friends list' or 'buddy list' and search for him. You'll know there's at least one really bad player on the table which is all you really need to be profitable.

You're taking some bad beats. As long as you continue to get your money in good, the variance will swing in your direction and you'll even out.

Cash games are profitable if you have a grinders mentality. Where as a tournament or a SNG pays off at anywhere from 5x to 100x your entry fee, cash games are primarily about consistantly eeking out a win over a number of sessions. This is particularly true in limit games.

Nonetheless, lady luck on occasion will slap you in the face and you'll suffer bad beat after bad beat after bad beat for a period. The big part about succeeding in cash games is continued patience

Side comment: I think the problem with guys like durrrrr, Antonius etcetera is that they give the false impression that a hyper agressive style is the way to make money in cash games. This simply isn't true. Theirs is a unique style that has been developed over millions of hands and backed by deep pockets that can withstand huge swings. A nice slow bankroll can be had comfortably using a more methodical approach that you see in guys like Lederer, Ferguson, Dan Harrington. etc.

Anyway keep working on your game and you'll succeed in cash games. a 2000 hand downswing is not uncommon in a cash poker career. You're just getting yours out of the way. Good luck!

Thanks for all the advice. Sorry for working in my bad beats into the post. I'll stick with it and see how it goes, I think I expected to crush these games which was unrealistic. I've just been taking the mentality that winning 40 cents at a time is fine and concentrating on having winning sessions and it has definitely been going alot better. I also just went back to playing a single table and then when I get more comfortable I'll open more.

What do you mean you looked him up? Sorry, that its off topic.

PTR after I finished playing.

Why are you assholes saying this, and in one line responses, as well...?!

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Anyway, don't give up one the cash games: getting your money in good pays off much faster than it does in tournaments, where a 60/40 flip might cost you your entire tournament equity, but in a cash game you will see the return far faster, as these situations will occur frequently (especially if multitabling) enough to get you to the positive side of the expectation fairly quickly (as noted, 2k hands really isn't enough to start to worry about a neg. number).

Also, you might try transitioning from tournament play to ring play by buying in short (min), or by playing cap limit games: this takes away the donkey's implied deepstack odds.

Theres only 1 sounding asshole and its not us

The fact is NL holdem is one of the most luckbox games there is...there are plenty of other games that require much more skill than holdem and have less variance..but stubborn fools like you will never give them the chance.

Oh well your loss.

my advice right now would be to play a diffrent game like omaha and stuff,it helps if nlhe going bad i go to omaha hi/lo then hi..then im forced to move to the games i dont like but can still make a profite in..stud and if thats bad too i move to razz but never gets that bad..if it does,quite for the day good luck..

Trying different games is a good suggestion but not an answer. Cap games are a good way to avoid big swings but can also reduce the value of any BIG hands you get. Try to find the game that makes you most comfortable and stick with it no matter if it is in ring games or MTTs at whatever level. Then find the best table or tourny that gives you the best odds of winning. Maybe it's a loose player at a ring game table. Maybe it's a SnG that has the best odds of winning. Whatever it is, I'm sure you will find it and when you do your confidence will grow and you will feel less burn on bad beats because you will know that you will win more often than not. Expecting to wipe out a cash game table is unrealistic and making money at cash game tables, especially during promotions where there are "donkeys" galore, is probably not your best overall chance of winning even if it is the easiest way to win alot fast. It is also a way to lose alot fast.

from what youre dexcribing, you've been talking about bad beats, dont feel bad about them.

how is holdem one of the most luckbox games?..i would say razz n omaha are way luckier IMO....their are plenty of ppl on this site that DO give these other games a chance