calling all good Omaha players

This little had here explained by good Omaha players would do a GOOD thing.

Was the starting had good
Should i have folded
Which of the Players Made a mistake.
Bet sizes

Just general stuff like that.
Look forward to hearing the comments.

View hand 570384
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN: $46.09
SB: $25.24
BB: $16.35
Hero (UTG): $10.80
MP: $14.08
CO: $4.81

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with K ♣ T ♣ K ♦ J ♥
Hero raises to $0.85, 1 fold, CO calls $0.85, 1 fold, SB calls $0.75, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($3.40) J ♣ 5 ♣ T ♠ (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $1.70, CO raises to $3.96 all in, SB raises to $9.15, BB folds, Hero calls $7.45

Turn: ($25.66) 7 ♦ (3 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($25.66) 6 ♠ (3 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $25.66
SB shows 5 ♦ Q ♦ J ♠ J ♦ (three of a kind, Jacks)
Hero shows K ♣ T ♣ K ♦ J ♥ (two pair, Jacks and Tens)
CO shows 9 ♣ 7 ♥ 2 ♥ 7 ♣ (three of a kind, Sevens)
SB wins $9.86
SB wins $14.52
(Rake: $1.28)

One of the fun and exciting aspects of PLO is that multiple players can reasonably expect to have the best hand (equity wise) on the flop.

First mistake made by all players imo - playing Cap PLO. PLO rewards postflop play, which means deepstacked play - Cap PLO is an oxymoron imo.

CO's mistake - getting it in w second set. On the other hand, he's shortstacked (also a mistake), so meh, he has equity against 2pr hands w no redraws and against all draws - if this were deepstacked, it's a huge mistake.

SB getting all in w top set for the cap is fine, no mistake there.

Hero getting all in w top two plus an overset redraw plus second nut flush for the cap is fine. Deepstacked, I would fold to two good players pushing the action, which would likely be top set (as it is here) and a big draw including the nut flush draw (a standard straight draw shouldn't be pushing action on this flop), too many of our outs are bad - but relative to the cap, we should be willing to gamble more imo.

The only huge mistake was by the cutoff. Yeah, he was short-stacked, but still, it's a cash game, he just threw his money away, drawing dead to a non-nut flush.

You had 15 outs x2 - 9 clubs, 2 Ks, 2 Js, 2 10s. Remember, this does not include the JJ we find out about later. Now, JJ (SB) had a made hand, but he had no redraws, except to a boat. The 5 in his hand only gave him 1 less out to pair the 5 on the table. He doesn't know that you are holding a J & a 10, so theoretically, those were outs for him, especially another 10. I would say the odds were in your favor - but not by much. A wild guess off the top of my head would say you were a 60% favorite, just didn't get lucky. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm way off on this. P.S. I think you played it well both pre- & post-flop, and got your monies in good. Again, just unlucky.

Oops, missed that CO turned second set and went all in on a non-nut fd - really really bad even for a ss.

Errr... cutoff got his money in before he even hit his set. Idiot. No wonder he was a shortstack to start with.

Beat me to it. hehe

I'm trying to learn Omaha and get a little better so this is just my take on this and you can tell me how bad I am.
First if I am Hero I probably check pre flop and call any normal size raises, looks like it may have checked around.
Post flop I hit two pair but I am still checking and CO probably bluff bets any way and SB probably raises and I would have folded.
I figure I only had 2 pair and draws to a K high flush and maybe a FH or trip Ks, none of which I'm willing to chase.
I am probably up against trips or a nut flush draw or a straight draw or higher two pair depending on the next two cards if I had called so I'm out of this hand early .
What think ye?

is this not a good starting hand tho?

IMO

The starting hand is very good.
I think you should have folded after the flop because of the raise and re raise and the possible hands that can beat you at that point.
SB hit top set and CO was chasing with short stack so not much you could change there, no mistakes or bet changes because SB was trying to isolate I'm sure by going all in.
You had outs but I wouldn't make that call.

pf, the hand is very nice. Omaha is a postflop game, though. Hero's pot equity is only 35% against the actual hands that show up here (SB wins the pot 55% of the time against these actual hands), and does worse against the range of hands they ought to be showing up w (in other words, if CO were a better player and had a real hand instead of his trash, Hero's equity should be smaller).

Playing Cap PLO is a great way to experience variance at its finest. It essentially means you're playing 2 streets. And since most micro limit Omaha players suck at the turn & river, you should really stay away from the cap tables.

Now, if I was going to play a table full of regs, I'd want to play at a cap table, since they're likely not used to 2-street omaha.

it happened again.
posted here.
its the 2nd one down the omaha one
your thoughts please i feel i gt sucked out on.
thanks

https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poke...kCurrentPage=0

sorry heres the hand

I'm guessing you're over-valuing two pair hands if you think that's a suckout. Two pair + a gutshot is not that strong in PLO.

I'm also guessing that you're not getting the "point" of PLO. We're trying to shove a lot of money/our stack in the middle when we're a 60/40 or better favorite and to have someone call when we're a 60/40 or better favorite. fwiw, I don't like to shove a lot of money in the pot w top two pair - if I know Villain always has a draw w only 8 outs, I'd do it in a heartbeat (we're 70/30), but it's too common for Villain to have a set as in the first hand posted or to have a bigger draw where we're not as big a favorite or actually a dog in the hand.

That means we're expecting to lose 40% of the time when we shove our money in the pot. The concept of "suckout" doesn't apply as strongly when we're expecting to lose 40%.

But i had the better draw and top two pair.
Did i not have more outs than him.

You have 8 outs, he has 8 outs, you have a made hand and he doesn't, he's behind, you're a 70/30 favorite. This is one of the 30.

You're missing my points -

1. He played the hand badly (an 8 out draw w top pair is an autofold in omaha), you should have been up against a much better draw 12+ outs or a set to which you would've been a dog. That's why I don't like pushing too hard w top two pair + gutshot.

2. Suckouts are the wrong way to think about Omaha. You are expecting to lose almost half the hands that you shove significant money into. Worrying about getting sucked out on is fruitless in Omaha.