Being Bullied on Ring Games & big buy-in SNG

#1 13th September 2009, 4:47 PM

Hello,

Apologies my first post is here and not the intro section, I will be posting too.

Recently, after deciding Full Tilt was not for me... I have gone to Party Poker... I've won / been paid in a few of the SNGs i've participated in, I'm finding that both 6 & 10 player tables are pretty winnable UP TO $55 buy-ins. Over this amount i find people keep trying to do a durrrr special with a relatively weak hand... of course, you don't realise until you've folded a strong hand and someone has called them. This happens on both 6 & 10 person tables.

The all-in calls have pushed me to fold hands like KA suited, KK, AQ suited, QQ, A10 suited because I want to still be in the SNG... This is the exact same problem with all ring games i've played on Party Poker too even with a fairly chunky bankroll it still leaves me folding the stronger hands... how do I play people like this, I try to play aggressive where I can but these all-in calls pre-flop are stealing my blinds and stealing my small calls!

What is the best way to beat players like this, do I need to take more chances or just wait for them to get knocked out? I am not massively confident because i've lost a few times to poor hands... but i've also lost to good hands where i've thought 'they're lying'.

Any advice welcome :-(

#2 13th September 2009, 4:53 PM

In situations like these I make note and sit and wait till I know I have them beat.

#3 13th September 2009, 5:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefatgeek

Hello,

Apologies my first post is here and not the intro section, I will be posting too.

Recently, after deciding Full Tilt was not for me... I have gone to Party Poker... I've won / been paid in a few of the SNGs i've participated in, I'm finding that both 6 & 10 player tables are pretty winnable UP TO $55 buy-ins. Over this amount i find people keep trying to do a durrrr special with a relatively weak hand... of course, you don't realise until you've folded a strong hand and someone has called them. This happens on both 6 & 10 person tables.

The all-in calls have pushed me to fold hands like KA suited, KK, AQ suited, QQ, A10 suited because I want to still be in the SNG... This is the exact same problem with all ring games i've played on Party Poker too even with a fairly chunky bankroll it still leaves me folding the stronger hands... how do I play people like this, I try to play aggressive where I can but these all-in calls pre-flop are stealing my blinds and stealing my small calls!

What is the best way to beat players like this, do I need to take more chances or just wait for them to get knocked out? I am not massively confident because i've lost a few times to poor hands... but i've also lost to good hands where i've thought 'they're lying'.

Any advice welcome :-(

I can't speak to sng's, only cash games. It sounds like you're playing higher than 25nl (i.e., $0.10/$0.25), since pf aggression generally doesn't start kicking in until 50nl or 100nl - the limit makes a difference, preflop aggression is much more challenging to understand at higher limits.

Suggestion - think about opponent ranges - some opponents will not 3bet you w less than QQ+, AK, and some opponents will 3bet you one heckuva lot lighter than that. Identify who is who and start playing back when you have a hand ahead of their range. Also, note that someone who 3bets light (say he 3bets 10% of the time) frequently has to fold to a 4bet (in which case it doesn't really matter what cards you're holding).

Note - the worst thing you can do out of position is to call a 3bet, 4bet or fold.

See this excellent article:

Move Beyond the Hand Chart: 3-bets & 4-bets preflop in No Limit Hold'em Cash Games

#4 13th September 2009, 6:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefatgeek

Hello,

The all-in calls have pushed me to fold hands like KA suited, KK, AQ suited, QQ, A10 suited because I want to still be in the SNG... . how do I play people like this, I try to play aggressive where I can but these all-in calls pre-flop are stealing my blinds and stealing my small calls!

What is the best way to beat players like this, do I need to take more chances?

Any advice welcome :-(

Folding AK suited, KK, QQ to pre flop shoves is losing poker. You can't wait for AA all the time. You are being too nitty. You want to win not just be in the game. You need to examine why you are playing if you folding these hands PF. Yes you will lose occasionally. But overall you will be winning more than losing. Call the shoves with these hands and no min raises!

#5 13th September 2009, 7:26 PM

When you notice someone is doing this to you repeatedly try to reshove against them with utter garbage cards... most likely they are going to fold because they have you pegged for a player who's only going to go all in with AA ... if you get them to fold SHOW YOUR HAND .. they'll most likely back off you because you're showing them that you know what they're doing and are willing and capable of outplaying them

#6 13th September 2009, 8:12 PM

In SNG I would let them bust out, and stay out of their way unless premium hand show up... in ring I would shove back with even marginal hands; maniacs and bullies usually don't like getting pushed back and will often fold.

#7 13th September 2009, 9:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbasbestbabe

Folding AK suited, KK, QQ to pre flop shoves is losing poker. You can't wait for AA all the time. You are being too nitty. You want to win not just be in the game. You need to examine why you are playing if you folding these hands PF. Yes you will lose occasionally. But overall you will be winning more than losing. Call the shoves with these hands and no min raises!

I fold, AK suited all the time to an allin, in the begging stages of a SNG. Why flip for your whole stack in the beginning? however, KK and QQ is another story. But like anything it depends on the situation.

I would suggest to play supper tight at the start of anything you play, let some hands play out and get an idea of what your opponents are doing. Then you can open up your range a little and start playing poker.

#8 13th September 2009, 10:25 PM

Thanks for your responses and apologies for a double post.

Quote:

Folding AK suited, KK, QQ to pre flop shoves is losing poker. You can't wait for AA all the time. You are being too nitty. You want to win not just be in the game. You need to examine why you are playing if you folding these hands PF. Yes you will lose occasionally. But overall you will be winning more than losing. Call the shoves with these hands and no min raises!

&

Quote:

When you notice someone is doing this to you repeatedly try to reshove against them with utter garbage cards... most likely they are going to fold because they have you pegged for a player who's only going to go all in with AA ... if you get them to fold SHOW YOUR HAND .. they'll most likely back off you because you're showing them that you know what they're doing and are willing and capable of outplaying them

You've both nailed it, in terms of SNG with the good hands I should probably show i'm not sitting in hope of an AA... although losing with an AA to 34 OS is another Full Tilt story in an SNG!

TriggaLos & Makwa - I think this is my problem, i'm trying to knock people out rather than play smartly - as long as i'm not going to be called in by the blinds anytime soon I don't HAVE to play every good hand if i'm in an ok position... but we're all greedy, especially in ring games... i cant help but call these hands then get spooned with a lame hand.

Time to get a bit smarter, play fewer hands unless they're the dogs and pay more attention to my opponents... thanks, logical advice & probably very obvious to you guys but sometimes you have to be told by someone else!

slycbnew - thanks alot, i'd never even heard of this... i have to be honest; it scares me a little and it's awfully in-depth, great link but it'll take me a few days to understand!

Thanks for your feedback - it's been taken on board & i'm going to get a bit tougher on the tables :-)

#9 14th September 2009, 9:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefatgeek

Thanks for your responses and apologies for a double post.

&

You've both nailed it, in terms of SNG with the good hands I should probably show i'm not sitting in hope of an AA... although losing with an AA to 34 OS is another Full Tilt story in an SNG!

TriggaLos & Makwa - I think this is my problem, i'm trying to knock people out rather than play smartly - as long as i'm not going to be called in by the blinds anytime soon I don't HAVE to play every good hand if i'm in an ok position... but we're all greedy, especially in ring games... i cant help but call these hands then get spooned with a lame hand.

Time to get a bit smarter, play fewer hands unless they're the dogs and pay more attention to my opponents... thanks, logical advice & probably very obvious to you guys but sometimes you have to be told by someone else!

slycbnew - thanks alot, i'd never even heard of this... i have to be honest; it scares me a little and it's awfully in-depth, great link but it'll take me a few days to understand!

Thanks for your feedback - it's been taken on board & i'm going to get a bit tougher on the tables :-)

Underlined...
SnGs let them knock their selfs out, just like Makwa said.
You will still knock them out, by playing smart poker.

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