Is being aggressive with your draws, considered a good play?

Is being too aggressive with your draws a good play or not? I read a book by Rob Parker and he says that this is a very weak play!!! And I agree with him. Most players nowadays are way too aggressive with their draws! Well, I'm not.To each his own, right. But in my opinion ( and Rob's point of view and others out there), that's the quickest way to lose your bankroll.Even if you're drawing for a nut flush or straight, you are still drawing!!! And most of the time, you will be up against a made hand, and the percentages are difinitely not on your favor. I even folded an open ended straight and flush draw on the flop!And the bet is callable, but the pot is small and i just put in a little, why bother? But maybe for you guys who plays aggro with your draws, convince me why this is a good play-being aggressive with draws.. I'm always open for new tricks, and im not here trying to be above over you, in fact i'm asking here for suggestions/tips for me and others out there who wants to learn to play poker profitably... By the way, I'm talking of Cash Games here, not Tournament poker, coz I know that this kind of play is kinda the norm in tournaments. But I rarely play in tournaments, coz I'm a Cash game player, and in my opinion, Live games are more profitable coz there are lots of fish out there. And I have seen a lot of hands where those aggressive with their draws lose a lot of money!!! I also seen a few who hit their draws, but most often they always came up short.. What do you guys think? Hoping for intelligent responses, thank you...

You play bad.

winnar

very intelligent imo

really?! you're anwer is so vague, try to elaborate, coz i'm winning with my kind of play. I' m not trying to pick a fight here, i'm here to learn, so explain yours..

You are a bad player who doesn't understand equity, ranges, or how being aggressive gives you multiple ways to win. You manage to scratch together a few coins in live games because the standard of play in low buy-in casino games is ****ing horrible. You should post some hands, read the Cash Games Hand Analysis forum and forget anything you read in the horrible book you described in your OP.

Actually I have no idea if the book you're talking about is horrible or if you misread/misinterpreted the advice the book gave.

fair enough..

Imo if you're not playing ur draws aggressive that's a leak in ur game. If you got the right odds and the ability to place ranges build the pot up so you get paid off when u hit. You say ur winning with ur kind of play but I assure u that ur only winning the min. if ur not playing ur draws and playing them so they benefit you. Like WVH stated above, being aggressive gives you many ways to win!

thanks.. im not really super tight, in fact im very aggressive when i get something or when the board hits me.. and that draw that i folded above, it just happened one time coz im winning at that time, and i dont wanna risk my profit anymore. i know its a bad move, but i can live with that, and im still learning the game..

I suggest you read up on pot odds and implied pot odds which will explain why you shouldn't be folding all draws or even hands when are behind. with an OESFD or OESD and a FD you are drawing to 15 outs, definitely not folding this as a general rule of thumb.

The next topic you should read up on is Fold Equity.

On a side note, only playings high pp and only continuing when you hit the flop makes you very easy to play against.

I'm going to move this thread to Learning Poker. It'll fit better there than in our into section. Feel free to post an actual intro thread so we know who you are.

You donk, you bet a draw!!!

have a read of this thread

When I have TPTK, even second pair or any sort of already made hand on a draw board on the flop and the chips get shoved on me after I bet I know 99% of the time exactly what they have, usually the open ended straight or the flush draw.

People love to shove their draws by massively over betting the pot and I call all day, it's awful play. I myself will do the same in certain situations but in general the play is so OBVIOUS that it has to be losing money long term and people who can see what you're doing (doesnt take much time to realise) then it's such -ev play.

Well it depends on the player and the action preflop but if they're also doing the same with 2pair+ making those hero calls with TP can be very -EV. Tighter players generally on have a handful of FD combos so when they shove on a scary board they actually are more likely to have TP crushed than they are to be drawing.

Bolded part is certainly true but it is also certain that you are one of them. Your mindset is pretty standard/common for beginning players and there is quite a lot to be said for sticking to premium hands when you are inexperienced and unskilled postflop. It is also understandable, but not optimal, to be risk-averse when you are playing with bankroll limitations, which, if you are playing live poker, you almost certainly are.

For example, if you are playing $1-$2 live, you should probably have a dedicated bankroll of several thousand dollars, maybe $2,000 minimum if you have a big edge in your games.

In the long run, you don't get big pairs or AK anymore often than anyone else, so where do you think possible edges come from? Winning players are going to make more money off their marginal hands through sheer aggression by pushing small equity spots and embracing variance, which in turn balances their ranges by making them more predictable and more likely to get paid off with their big hands.

OK so I have a 4 card open-ender off the flop. Is it 5-1 to make the straight (roughly) so if in position and villain raises 20% pot then it's good to call, but he raises 30% or more my pot odds are wrong so I should fold, right?
Does this count for the flop or the flop plus turn (assuming the turn is a dead card). It seems that I have a 1 in 6 hitting ( more like 5.75 or 18%) so a $80 pot with a $20 bet on turn makes a $100 pot and $20 to call which is 5-1, so you should call. What is not clear from reading is, do the pot odds change before the turn? Since I have 2 chances to hit a straight my odds are less. I read about the simple 4x and 2x rules, after the flop I have a 1-3 chance of hitting the straight on either the turn or river, I should not call if the pot odds are greater than 33% of the pot (which is if the villain bets more than 50% of the pot post flop). What I don't understand is that when you draw dead on the turn your odds have decreased and any bet greater than 25% (which would make your call 20% ) of the pot is a looser to call, If I'm the villain that's EXACTLY what I'm going to do is make it unprofitable for you to call my set or top 2 pair. Am I looking at this right?

It depends. If you feel that your opponent is weak, raising is going to be a superior play. If you feel that your opponent is very strong, it could be profitable to call getting worse odds, assuming he will pay off if you hit because he has a big hand.

It also depends on the texture of the board and if you can possibly have other outs (such as top pair outs) or chances to bluff if another draw comes in.

Example:
KQo on JT3r board. you have 8 outs to the nuts and 6 potential outs to make top pair. You're also ahead of some straight draws such as Q9 or 98 but behind AK/KQ, which could be problematic if you hit top pair and they have you out-kicked or make broadway.

Example 2: you have 98hh on 762cc board. Your overcards have marginal value. The flush draw being out arguably devalues your draw as you have only 6 outs to the nuts instead of 8 but if your opponent is not on a flush draw it's possible that he will fold his hand if a third club comes in and you bet/raise.

What you put in is irrelevant, and calling is not agression

Although I think you of the explanations are a little less than diplomatic, I agree with the general trust of the comments. It appears you may wish to start with some of the basics - pot odd, out, EV, implied odds and old equity; then find a good article that explains playing the player. Finally, as more and more players are relying purely on the math (not a bad thing to do) use the low limits to practice reading hands and defining players. Finally, a good article on the different style of play involved in ring game games as opposed to tournaments may help you. Making comments like "why bother" because the pot is small instantly flagged you as a newbie to the game. Your question is similar to someone saying "I had 88 raised was re-raised allin and lost to XX - did I play this wrong." Most of us would want a series of questions asked before replying: table position, action by both players over last 30 hands, relative stack sizes ( tournament) table position, table image, etc. When you understand why we would ask for this information then you will know if chasing a draw is the correct play.

This. Profits in poker do not come from luck or from thin air. If you surrender your equity in profitable spots, your potential profit goes to someone else.

Pretty easy fold. you didn't give a detailed account of the action or what stack sizes are but even if the whole table had limped, he overbet the pot into a ton of people OOP. TAG's generally don't bluff into 6-9 people and once he says he just had a Q with no heart without showing, you can pretty safely assume he was lying.

You have a really marginal hand, a pair with a mediocre draw that probably has no implied odds and perhaps, worse, reverse-implied odds because either A. he has a hand that won't pay off if you improve and B.you will be drawing dead a fairly large amount of the time. Plus he overbet the pot and makes it really unlikely he will ever be bluffing in this spot -- he might even check something like 2 pair.