becoming a better player at the start

So I have recently started playing poker and I really enjoy it, but I have not really been making an overall profit (losing a bit more than winning). I have decided that I really want to become a better player and start turning a profit. I'm not looking to quit my job or anything, I just want poker to pay for itself. I just started playing about 2 months ago and have put in about 80 bucks (I see this as tuition for learning the basics of the game).


Now I would like to take 50-100 dollars and turn that into small bankroll. I have purchased the first Harrington book and am about half through it and "Sit N Go strategy" is in the mail. I have been lurking in a few forums for about an hour each night and reading any articles I can.

I have been playing LAG for the first few blinds (50 chip buy-in and lower) and then moving towards TAG until the bubble where I become quite a bit more aggressive. I find that I am making it to the bubble quite often, but not making it into the money more then making in the money. I often get caught trying to steal a pot on the bubble. Pot stealing works so great near the bubble until it doesnt :-(

My question is about strategy from this point. I started playing in 1-4 dollar 180 sit N gos and then to 90 players and now i have been playing $1.20-$2.25 9 player SNG. I really prefer the 9 player games as I can actually use some strategy. I have never played any cash games.


Now to my question. What sort of game is going to improve my game? My strategy is to play as many hands as possible, but with my small BR that means 1-2 dollar SNGs, but I'm not sure playing these people are going to make a better player (people playing lots of crap hands). Is it better to play 4 1.20 SNGs or 1 $5 SNG per night? Somewhere in the middle? Should I be playing the 10 cent games?

I have assumed that I should be sticking to low player SNGs, but is this not advisable?

anyways, thank you in advance for any help and for providing this great resource.

hi
just one point
could be a mistake as general strategy..

Ok, so if you are new to this game and want to get alot of hands in, start with the play chip sng's. Get a good understanding of the game and develop a style. As you build your chips up, get into the 10,000 play chip tournies. you will find better play than the 250 or 2000 games. But if your intent on playing for money right now, play the $1 sng's and develop a TAG image and work it. Also read Chris Ferguson's bankroll management of Full tilt. this should help you out

I am going to move this to learning poker.

Feel free to jump in these discussions if you want:

HOH Volume 1 - Book Discussion Announcement

Hi, welcome to the forum.

This is almost backwards. It's generally not a good idea to LAG it up in the early stages of a low buyin SNG because there will be a lot of other players playing loosely. Generally, the looser players will tend to double or bust early, and while busting guarantees you no return on your buyin, doubling doesn't necessarily guarantee you any cash.

I'm not saying you can't steal early on, I'm not saying you can't raise weak late position limpers from the button and suchlike, but generally when you play a hand in the early stages you want either (a) a very strong hand or (b) huge pot odds (5 players limp, you're in the SB with 97s, that sort of thing). You will find that your big hands will often get paid off and you don't need to be throwing chips about early on.

As the blinds get larger, a lot of bad players tend to tighten up, because what were once 20 chip limps or 60 chip raises are now 100/300 limps/raises, and are a large portion of their stack. This is pretty much the opposite of effective strategy, as of course given that the blinds are larger and larger relative to stacks, they're more worth winning.

Be careful and pay attention to stack sizes on the bubble. In 9-player SNGs there is a nearly 200% ROI 'swing' between 4th and 3rd, meaning that if you can scrape into the money, it's worth it. This is unlike big MTTs - although they have a large ROI swing between bubbling and scraping into the money, they have a huge ROI swing between scraping into the money and final tabling. While in MTTs chip accumulation should generally be your aim on the bubble, in an SNG survival should be your main aim. If you and another guy have 4k chips on the bubble at 100/200 blinds and he shoves with a guy with 300 chips still to act, your QQ should become a trivially easy fold.

I think the guy a few posts above misunderstood your "play as many hands as possible" remark - I took it to mean as many dealt hands as possible rather than seeing as many flops as possible.

Playing lower buyin SNGs won't harm you greatly. The transition isn't as marked as the transition through cash game levels. Regardless of the buyin, effective SNG strategy remains very similar - tight early on, abuse the bubble or survive it depending on stacks, learn optimal push.fold strategy. Sure there are differences - you can get away with playing a little looser early on in fish-filled lower buyin games as you can often stack or cripple someone with your AJ when you both flop TP and you get called down by A3s or something (whereas if you raise AJ in EP in a higher buyin game, most people's calling/reraising ranges absolutely crush you), you should tighten up a little more on the bubbles of lower buyin games as people will call you with generally wider ranges, but the difference isn't huge.

Eh, it's a matter of personal preference. Try some 6-player SNGs, try some 5-table SNGs, try some turbos, see what you prefer and stick with it.

as far as low buy in sit and goes go i would not recomend playing in them at all...generally the people playing in them play with little to no poker strategy...i have found that the chances that you get busted or rivered by horrible starting hands is quite high.

If you really want to win without losing first, read as much as possible with very little play sprinkled in. Finishing both Harrington books and Moshman's SnG book will be better for you bottom line that throwing away your "tuition money".

Hi, just a few things to help you out...


read this book before you play too much, this book alone should make you a single table SnG winner. This is probably the best book i have read on poker so far (imo).


you will soon find out that this is actually the opposite way to play. All the inexperienced players in the low-level SnG's play this same strategy and it is not worth busting out early in the tournament to play many hands. Play premium hands in the beginning and loosen your range later when blind stealing becomes more valuable (you will learn this strategy in Moshman's book).

read the book, play $1 SnG's, move up in stakes when you feel comfotable at that level and you have the necessary bankroll.

based on your bankroll, i would reasonably assume that you best bet is to play low limit sng's ($1.10 or $2.20). i personally would go with the $1.10 because it will allow you to log more hands and gain more experience with your given bankroll.

as for whether i believe low limit sng's are profitable. absolutely. some of them play horrible cards, but that just makes them easier to catch when you hit the nuts. don't look at their horrible play as a roadblock, look at it as a leak in their game that you need to figure out how to exploit.

you mention using a LAG strategy early and then moving into a TAG strategy late. without watching you play, i would assume that this is probably the biggest leak in your game. if you are known early as a player who will enter or raise a lot of pots, your steal attempts later lose value because people will become accustomed to seeing you in the pot and will often attempt to re-steal from you rather than respect your steal attempt. i would recommend starting TAG until the mid stages, and then start opening up your game into more of a LAG style. the other thing is figuring out how to pick your spots. you don't want to steal a raised pot, or a pot call a raised pot with mid range speculative hands.

just some general input though based on the information that you provided.

oh yeah, i also recommend the Sit N Go Strategy book. i am on my second time reading it right now, and it has not only helped to transform my game, but helped me to view SnG's very differently, which has helped to increase profits. i also think that this is single handedly the most helpful book available for a novice player to improve general game play

thanks for all the replies. Sorry about putting this in the wrong forum, makes much more sense in here.


As far as playing a lot of hands..... yes, I mean to play a lot of poker not calling a lot of hands.


I may not be playing truly LAG in the beginning. I guess what I am saying is that I will play a lot lesser two cards than later. for example I would go ahead and pay 50 chips (1500 starting) or less to see a flop with an overcard and x where as later when the blinds are larger I would not. The idea is to see if I hit something and if I don't simply fold. If I get raised or don't hit anything then Ive only lost 20-50 chips.

Is this not advisable?

No, this is not advisable. You should generally play tighter in the early stages and then begin playing hands like Ax in the mid stages depending on you position in the tournament, you stack size relative to the blinds, and your table position. Obviously you won't have to take as many calculated risks if you have a decent chip stack relative to the blinds. As the blinds begin chip away at your stack, then you wanna begin to open up and play more hands like Ax for cheap pre flop hoping that you can connect on the flop.

In the beginning stages, you can get away with playing speculative hands more than you would be able to in the middle stages. In mid to late position in an unopened pot, you can limp in with hands like 9-10s and play for cheap to see the flop. if you happen to connect significantly on the flop, then you can begin either trying to steal the pot, or trying to build the pot. but you don't want to be making calls with these hands, and unless no one before you enters the pot, you don't want to be making raises with these types of hands pre flop because you risk becoming pot committed on your continuation bet if you happen to get called.

Again, Colin Moshmans Sit N Go Strategy book will help greatly in helping you to understand chip value, tournament equity, situational play, and things of this nature as we are discussing right now.

My tip for beginners: Seems to me beginners are taught to think about starting hands when thinking about position is by far the more fundamental lesson.

Though there are good arguments against it, I think logging a lot of hands in freerolls, playmoney games and home "for fun" games will help you get some of the mechanics of the game without devastating your wallet.

Anyway... good luck with poker! It sure is fun!

Yes this is still wrong believe it or not... This is the exact reason that makes these SnG's profitable with good play. The majority of beginners think it is o.k. to limp in for only 20 chips with your A6 in the early stages. If your ace hits it could be deadly and potentially end your tournament when you get beat by A9. This is why you play your premium hands in the beginning (raise them) such as AK, so when your playing a weak player who is holding the Ax he will dump his chips to you thinking "i have top pair!" Play "tight/cautious" in the beginning as Moshman says and begin to loosen your range when the blinds go up to steal some blinds, just as players who play like you are initially tighten up and fold to your raises.

Speculative hands such as 9 10s can be valuable to play in low blinds if you are in late position and have the right odds to call, i.e., a few limpers infront of you, which could possibly turn into a monster hand. Fight the urge to limp with that Ax in ealry position and fold it, it will cost you money in the long run.