Basic HORSE tips

Recently .. I just lost to a couple of HORSE tournaments..
I was near the money..but eventually got blinded out..

Any tips? Feel free to post.. I need to improve my game

Might I suggest strictly learning stud8 because it covers 3/5s of horse. if u can master playing a high hand in stud8 u can play the stud portion of horse. If u can play the lo portion of stud8 ull get a better understanding of razz.

Razz isn’t that hard if u keep it simple. In ur mind just take 5 cards, 4 of which will be shown on ur opponents board and given em credit for the best possible card as one of the hidden cards to define their hand. if u can beat that hand u should be good to go. That’s a veeery simplistic way of going about reading an opponents hand but itll help u start off. Yeah ur gonna get opponents get really great hidden cards and just blow u away but usually what u see is what u get. Lolol. Anyway at least ull be thinking about what ur opponent is doing and that’s a very important step.

If ur playing stud8 id really reeeeeally suggest u don’t play razz hands headsup against a made hi hand headsup. That’s a cardinal beginners sin. A razz hand in stud8 are like 248, 278 rainbows that have limited str8 or flush possibilities. U get a pair of tens staring across from u or whatever, fold that razz hand. Actually id tell u to skip razz hands in stud8 nearly totally unless its a multiway pot, because at best ur playing for half a pot not the whole pot and u might not make that lo. Fold or play hi pairs very cautiously because if some1 is playing an ace lo and hits their ace then ur in trouble. folding that pair of kings or queens is gonna be hard for certain holdem players lolol but it will save u a lot of grief and anger, i promise.

Be very weary of getting a35 or any ace with 2 cards below 5. ive seen beginners overplay these hands ridiculously over the yrs. They think “oh I have an ace and 3 to a wheel (A-5), lets go crazy”. Big mistake, because that ace makes ur hand only a gut shot str8 draw, u cant go below the ace lolol. And depending on how many aces are out u might be in big trouble of improving ur hand. a superior hand would be 3 cards within 3-7, more chances for a str8.

More important than anything -pay attention to ppl’s door cards so u can see if u can get cards that can help ur hands in the stud form of Horse. hope i helped.


GL

Stop playing HORSE. Start playing a game included in the HORSE rotation.

well.. actually I'm good in hold'em and razz... I think my weakness is stud and omaha.. I usually lose all my chips in those stages.. how can I improve my game?

Utilise your strengths, where you have an edge in holdem and razz play as normal or maybe more hands if weaker players are in the hand.

Only play the really strong hands in Omaha and Stud and keep it simple

If you know how to play razz you got half of stud hi/lo down. As far as stud goes just think of it like holdem if you know the basic poker hands you can surive that part of the tourney until you get to the stregths of your game. When I first started to play horse I tried to play each game in a sit n go or two to try to improve on that part of it.

^ this, and it can't be stressed enough.

It's hard to win at HORSE if you're weak in one of the games, let alone three or more of them. And there really aren't any quick answers - Omaha8, Stud and Stud8 are each complex and very different games in their own right. We can't tell you "try to only play two-way hands in Omaha8 and never fold for a single bet on seventh if you can beat your opponent's board in Stud" because while those things might be true they're not even scratching the surface of those games and a couple of simple points won't make you a winner in either of those games.

It's like I keep telling you in the $10 bankroll thread: when you're starting out, pick one game and stick with it. It's a waste of time trying to learn every game at once because you won't end up being any good at any of them. HORSE is an even worse choice because it gives you the chance to be bad at five games all at once. Just avoid it.

ohh okay.. I'm just trying to explore new things.. cause I'm kind of decent in razz.. but I'll follow your advice.. for now I'm getting lucky in texas hold'em got AA twice in a row.. after that KK O.O insane !!

Good advice

Bad advice -- Ace with 2 wheel cards is a very good starting hand

Also, pay more attention to anything C9 says. Also post hands you have questions on and pm me or c9 to comment on them.

i didnt say its a bad starting hand.

nor did i say u should fold it.

i said u shouldnt go crazy and cap with it for the reasons started earlier especially if ur cards are dead. its still a drawing hand. u have to play it cautiously.

Holdem and Omaha will cost you more to sit out in a tourney, since the blinds will cost you more than the bring-in in the stud type games. Build slowly and punish later with a big stack, especially if you make it to the payout bubble. First round I play tight in all games. Develop board reading skills for razz and stud. You have to know what has been folded when you get to sixth and seventh street if you are drawing. A lot of people don't know how to recognize a board lock in Razz or knowing how many low cards have been shown. Too many people play for a split and get quartered in Omaha 8. Draw to two way hands in Stud 8. Watch what games people sit out on. They are usually weak in those games and can be punished later when they have to play.

Dammit, I came in here looking for advice on how to break my horse and all I get is a bunch of dumb answers on card games. FTW

Dont play Limit tourneys.

I would say for one, don't play it with play money. Yo'u'll never get a feel of how the game plays.

A big tip that helps me, esp shorthanded in Stud and razz...if it folds to you and just the bring in, always put pressure with a raise. Often you'll be playing against an inferior hand if they call.

If you continue to play HORSE and find you are having trouble in PLO8 section here is my advice for those rounds for the game. Play hands that only contain an A2 or A3 and when you play A3 make sure you are In position. When you look down at your starting cards it is a must that you see A2 or A3 as a beginer of the game. If you don't see either of these in your starting hand it is fold time.

As you get better at the game you can start adding other hands into the mix. Since you say you are losing during this round I think this is strong advice to follow.

but like whenever I get A 3 .5 times out of 10 someone has A2 .. I lost 60% of my stack in that hand lol

Start folding non-nut low draws.

^^^^^^This

A3 is a good starting but the flop will let you know if you can continue with it. Also if you are worried about playing A3 hands you can tighten it up even further and only play A3 hands when the A is suited. Since this is limit 08 there is no way to make it to the river without the nuts in at least one direction and you might even consider folding to someone that is capping a lot if you have the nut low since they are most likely going to 1/4 you.

got more tips on stud? I kind of need to improve my game.. in case the event is horse Freerolls or Buy In tourneys

Why not?

Need more tips hahaha keep it coming

SERIOUSLY, stop playing HORSE for real money until you're either a: good at a few of the games and at least reasonable at the others or b: sitting on a big enough bankroll that you don't care if you lose the money.

Since you've started a thread like this one you're obviously not in category a, and we know from your $10 thread that you're not in category b either. If you're looking to grow a bankroll from a small amount of money then playing games like HORSE will only send your account backwards. Just stop doing it.

If you're playing it in a freeroll try not to bluff and just push your decent hands as hard as you can in all games because LOL, it's a freeroll, and chances are 95% of the rest of the field won't know WTF they're doing either so they'll probably pay you off with garbage.

nicely put. nothing like being good in 2or 3 of the games and lose it all on one you have know idea to what your doing. Definately isnt a bankroll builder for me.

your right oz .. I'm asking tips for HORSE.. but I'm not playing in real cash games.. cause one of the best option in boosting our BR.. is the 2$ buy-in 100$ added private tourney in FTP.. really helps a lot.. just getting ready for it in case they do HORSE

Because you have to get lucky at the right time to win, cannot push the table around with any 2 like with NLHE. Is more dependent on the cards than playing skills, in other words... Many times you can build your stack at the lower levels but go card dead when blinds rise, and bluffing your way ahead is generally not a viable option...

Dj's HORSE tips.

Assuming tourney and NOT RING HORSE.

At the beginning of most HORSE SnG's or MTT's you want to wait for big BIG hands. Even tho these are limit games, a few assholes can screw you up fast. Avoid the early raise/3bet/4/bet/ cap situations where more than half the table is involved.

1st round in general...proceed cautiously.

1st round H(oldem)...Wait it out without a great hand.. You will find a lot of agro maniacs in this first round of the game. Avoid the whole damn round if you don't get dealt gems.

1st round O(8), all those agro's who lost money in the HE round will think they can recoup it here. Avoid them as they will eat you alive even if you win half the pot. Preferable of course are scoop hands. A split pot is a stack eater even if you win.

1st round R(azz) 3 cards under 8 in the window, AND watching the board allow you to unaggressively see 4th street. DO NOT TRY TO GET LUCKY HERE. Watch the cards , ALL the cards. Set it so dealer tells you everything as this may help you remember what cards are gone and unavailable. If you don't start off with 3 low cards in razz resist the temptation to start with 2 low cards. FOLD a lot.

1st round S(tud Hi) many of those agro maniacs may already be gone if this is a STT, but in a MTT they are still there. Some have big stacks but most will have very small stacks and feel desperate. Start with a pair or fold.

1st round E(stud hi/lo)Go for the low hands primarily, and ideally the low straights or flushes. Do not try to get lucky. Start with something! Either 3 low cards (below 8, better below7) or at very least a pair where u know the other 2 cards of that rank are unaccounted for (someone else doesn't have one).

1st round in general you should work on making it to the second round. This means you fold a lot. Lets the agro donks blow their wads.


2nd round.

Most of the time by the 2nd round a sort of sanity has arrived. But this will depend on the tourney structure, turbo or not. Ultimatebet had HORSE MTT's with 12 minute games, meaning one horse per hour before they joined the synchronized break group. By far the best structure IMO, alas gone now. If your in a turbo, or super turbo, the 2nd round is only slightly better than the 1st round as far as those agro maniacs go.

Wait for your better opportunities. You will find most of the folks folding and for that reason alone you can crank up your aggression. It will more often induce a iffy caller to fold. Don't overuse it here, there are still the remaining agro donks.

By the end of 2nd round of a STT HORSE the field should be 1/2 it's original size, even tho this is limit. The blinds and ante's are growing and most will get fairly conservative. This offers some opportunities, but remember these are HORSE players, who IMHO, are a cut above your typical HE players and are wise in the ways of noticing who is doing what to whom. You must seek to a certain savviness in the 3rd round and beyond.

very useful post man.. I actually cashed in twice but didn't make it to the final table.. got 2$ out of it.. For example, I reached the money.. 45 players left.
I got an average chip stack.. what should I do to reach the Final table?

If you stay average throughout a tourney, you will end up HU for the trophy.
Point is an average stack is fine. Resit that urge to make a move. Let other bust themselves out while you continue to play solid. It is still a limit game thus you can't intimidate a decent hand to fold playable hands. Steal those pots that offer the opportunity, and avoid confrontations where possible.

My problem when I find myself late with an average stack is that I also learn that there is some huge stack somewhere, and I feel that urge to compete. I constantly have to resist that urge and get back to my game. When I do, I don't worry, when I succumb to that temptation I make stupid moves which put me in panic mode making me make even more stupid moves.......

Do Not worry about your stack size when you are close to average. The limit game/blinds/antes/ have a way of getting big enough, fast enough to cause weird things to happen fast, like 2 hands from worst to first. Beware the visa versa there.....

They have done a Friday 7-game before. The schedule for August should be out today. I am hopeful there will be a 7-game or HORSE on there. If not we can try and request one for September.

Damned if our Friday night game ain't HORSE this week!

*shrugs*

I can tell you from experience that the best way to grow a bankroll from nothing is to stick to the games you're good at and not waver, no matter how soft the other game looks or how enticing the money added is.

At the end of the day what you do with your money is 100% up to you though.

Yup! just saw that on the FTP private page. Actually debating a donation on this one.



Also thanks for the great post. I have always felt while playing HORSE and the 7/8-game mix that round one has to be 100% premium hands only. You post seems to confirm this.

Three cards to a wheel with an ace is in the top starting hands in stud 8/u, raise this hand, bring in complete with this hand.
I mean if your missing wheel cards and another ace are laying all over the table, then be very careful. Next card you get a 6, keep running your split queens into me. Because I'm already 70% to half the pot, and I may scoop it if your not careful. Low drawing hands are power in stud 8u. Not sure how you could say 3 cards to a wheel with an ace is not a good starting hand.

Obviously you have to be careful playing it, know whats left to catch, etc.

Thank you dj.
Good tips.
Gonna try those on todays horse game.
Horse is one of my favorite game "styles" after omaha & holdem.

I'm pretty sure Skold's point was that three cards to a wheel with an ace is a good starting hand. The "bad advice" bit is directed at a previous poster.