Bad call or just bad luck?

Was playing a 2$ SnG stt tonight, early into the game i get delt KK think i was in mid position, one of the earlier players min raised preflop, folded around to me and i call, everyone else folds.
flop came up dead, he goes all in and i called, he was holding AA and they held.

Since it was so early in the game should i have just layed the KK down or was this just a bad beat? The game was still in the first level of blinds too by the way. I think his position was UTG +1 but i cant rem for sure. I really need to get some sort of tracking add on but dont want to pay for it lol.


I tried to get the hand history off of lock but its not up there for todays games yet(game was played on the 29th)

I'd call and lose this one every time. I am probably a donkerton though.

Only exception would be if I'm on the bubble and the flop is semi scary.

It's weird for the other player to overshove the flop if he's only min-raised pre.. because he'd be what.. betting like 10x pot? (< although you'll often see players playing AA this way... it doesn't get re-raised before the flop & no matter what comes down on the flop (even if super wet board).. they'll overbet POT).
Question for ya... why are we only 'flatting' his 'min-raise' preflop with KK in early levels? In a micro buyin you're going to be able to value raise here all day long & by just 'calling' you're setting yourself for a more difficult situation if it becomes a multi-way pot (which it often does).

hard to say if its bad luck or a bad call...hard to avoid losing all your money, depending on how much of a read u've got on the guy...first off, never just flatcall the min raise preflop...pop it, then if he shoves behind then you can maybe put him on aces....its still obviously very difficult to lay it down, but at least u get more info on it before he shoves on the flop...

well, i say bad luck.... but when playing rush poker i lay down a hand like that all the time... so if you were playing tight... you fold there asuming a all in bet is a set.... so... i have learned tons playing rush i have rules.... first don't call big raises and if u call be willing to lay down big hands if u don't hit set. that's one of my meany rules........ good luck in the furture i will post all my rules some time...

Definitely a "that's the way it goes", BUT you did nothing as far as letting you know if AA might be out there (so you had to call).
Had you raised (like 4x) and then the guy comes over the top of you, well now laying it down becomes a more legitimate question than the way it was played.
BUT even then I may not lay it down - a whole lot of other factors will now come into play.
To put someone on AA or KK vs AK or QQ is a big stretch, but it's not like I haven't done it before - and been both right and wrong when doing it.

A "that's poker" moment, you wen't wrong sometimes it goes that way.

Why would a set ship it here? (makes no sense)

3 bet preflop in middle position vs. a min raise. If he 4bets then ship it. If he calls then play a flop in position. You flatting is inviting a whole string of callers behind you in position(and they would be correct to do this with many hands). As played call the shove. Of course if you want real info you need to give us more. A fully converted hand with all the info against this player would be best, but you don't tell us the flop or even flop texture. It's basic poker learning 101. Crap in crap out.

Sounds to me you are being results orientated. Not going to flame ya for it cause I used to be the same way. Only reason I say this is because the only real info you gave was KK vs. AA and your positions. If you want real answers, you need to post in hand analysis sub-forum leave out the results. Took me a long time to take the effort to do this but it has payed off tremendously!

Also go to your options and save hand histories as long as possible. Copy them to a backup folder every once in a while. If you ever decide to use tracking software you will want these. If not it's still good to be able to go through HH to look for interesting hand to post. Honestly not trying to be a dick, just trying to help.

I'm quite inexperienced but when I play SnGs my objective is to be ITM (even if it is play-money) so if even in the first couple of levels I get a any hand and someone all-ins I will fold unless I have something to look at like something above top trips.

And I hope they're bluffing since that will be setting them up for me later.

Sorry if this isn't good advice, but that's what I do since my objective is to be ITM so the risk of being kicked out is not acceptable.

No ace on the flop? I'm calling there too. I would have raised preflop. End result would have been the same.

You had bad luck, and I will call with KK and go all in no matter on which possition I am.

I don't think I ever laid down KK in a situation like that. But you should have raised his minimum bet.

Anyway, KK vs AA happens all the time, gotta get used to these things. Personally I have a problem with AK, I hate that hand and have folded it all the time, but now I force myself to go allin in many situations. I never meet someone with AQ or AJ though.

in my mind it's a donkey move to min bet pf then all in post flop , aces are easliy beat at that point but I would call 99% of the time with kk knowing that micro players often do that with worse hands . I've seen it many times with jj and worse . many times they will hit their set with low pairs if you don'r re-raise pre-flop , so in some cases where I don't re-raise , I will fold to an all in bet .

How could you assume the flop came up dead especially when the guy shoved after the flop. He got to the flop cheap - because you let him. Because of that he is o a HUGE range from any pocket pair to unsuited gappers. When he shoves you now have to consider pretty much any drawing hands, trips, two pair, etc. and you have no other choice but to call.
You didn't get any information out of him before it was too late. You raise his min preflop and he is of course going to come over the top. He may shove or just raise - either way you now know he has a monster. A monster that beats KK? Maybe, maybe not - but you knowmore than you would have otherwise.

This is a SNG... you honestly think he's minraising in EP with suited gappers? In early levels? I REALLY doubt it.
OP, read Detroit Jimmy's post. It has some valuable/useful info. in there for ya.
Some of the other responses on this thread... 'meh'... you'd likely crush them on the tables.

Yes, it is dioubtful - but my point is OP did nothing to remove that as a possibility. As he said - it was early in the game, whch for me increases the chance he might be giving it a shot - even if just to establish a deceptive table image. Also there is that section of players playing looser in the beginning to take advantage of all the tightness to try to grab it while they can do it cheap. And since the OP gave us nothing else on the villian - I just can't remove that as a possibility until the guy has to face a reraise.

Bad luck definetly. Full tilt is the only site that this shit will happen on a regular basis. Just signed up with carbon and i believe they are 100% legit. Full tilt is legit to but you just have to adjust your playing style to the way they like to deal cards.

Oh no... just a big huge SUPER SIGH!......
(we have a thread specific for this kind of post here on CC..... all roads rigged (or something like that)).

Certainly not to be called a 'bad beat.' That's just poker - it happens and is part of the game, you'll need to 'deal with it' as they say. Lots of people will raise preflop with all sorts of rubbish. A preflop re-reaise with KK is the way to go, even if all-in. Only AA will be ahead of you and most hands which people will call with will be way behind you. Only once in a blue moon will he have AA. Unlucky - but that's poker!

Steve

this was an unlucky hand and im not sure how you could have gotten away from it. I would have reraised preflop to see where I was since villain could be raising with JJ+ or AK and I would like to see where I was. Since cards were not listed on the flop, I dont know how card dead we were so if villain shoved, I would be inclined to call since people at this level do raise preflop and shove on the flop with overpairs from JJ+ which we beat.

Not that i have not called in this exact same situation in the past, but i think the answer is both. The reasons why i think it's a bad call are that an under the gun or plus one min raise often means aces, an even if it doesnt, you still only have one pair with almost nothing invested in the pot. Why risk it? you could be up against a multi tabler who sees a set and an shoves, or you could be against someone with notes on you that you slow play big pairs an thinks you could have an overpair and will call against his bullets. Whatever it is your potentially getting it in almost dead so to me thats a fold until i know more about the player.

lol.

I never understood these comments, ever. Yes..... because full tilt or pokerstars or whatever would care less who sucks out on who.. Lets face it, once registration is complete full tilt earns NO MORE money. They get their fee through each sign up so why on earth they would rig their software is laughable.

Why would they care (even more so at micros) who wins and who doesn't really? What would they achieve by giving a short stack a suckout on a big stack or vica versa, apart from cost themselves more money because one extra person in a tournament = more server time = more costs.

Don't be ridiculous.

People like you are so so annoying "it only happens on such a site"

It happens on ALL sites i'll have you know and also happens in LIVE casinos along with your home games with your own cards.

Play one million hands at every website and live, you will find the odds and results will be within each other.

Big sigh.

Not bad luck or a bad call. AA v KK happens all the time (statistically speaking of course ) - live with it.
On the rigtard issue - I'm with my fellow Seasider fan (Ramdeebam) above

Would have done the same thing ,just with a reraise pre-flop there show some strength..And as Tangerine 53 said ,AA vs KK happens all the time..no worries there,don't think it was a bad call.

It wasn't a bad call. However you did allow them into the pot for a discount. Without a decent amount of info on this player the only info you would have had would have been the healthy reraise. It's damn hard to lay down a monster pair anytime but not impossible.

I don't blame you for calling here, laying down kk the way the hand played was next to impossible.

I'm still just a learner.
I learned a lot in this topic.
Thank you all.
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Lol That was donk play from both parts. The best hand won. I wonder what would had happened if all the guys after you (you were ion midlle position) would had called that minraise. You and the donk with aces would had seen something magic. Another donk with 2 small pairs cought on flop or a small set would had took all your money. It happens that you kings can bump into aces but that happenes rarely. But it also happens that lots of times when you do not isolate your opponet , your KKs to be beat by the 72 from the BB who catches 72 on the flop.
I think the fact you KK bumped into AA do not deserve a big fuss, but the way you and your opponent played deserve a place in "what not to do" list .

I would never call with kings from middle position. I would reraise. Not reraising is inviting the villains after me to call with anything.

Just bad luck, but you should have tried to isolate the re-raising player before the flop, because more players could have joined the pot like people have already said. Unlucky for you but it happens!

3bet pre, gleefully stack off and go broke on non A flops

I would say that is bad luck ... if you are laying down KKs, then it will be pretty tough to get to end stages of the tournament... There are no many donks online, you never know this guy might just play with seven deuce. I say you made the right play.

You should have reraised pleflop, to avoid any more limpers.
If you get reraised, shove.

There is only one hand that could beat you preflop, and some high chances an ace doesn't pop up if he holds only one in his hand.

Going all in in preflop with KK against one villain? Sure thing. Laying down kings... you'd get not much further if you have to wait for AA everytime you go all in.

AA and KK, and even QQ sometimes are the hands you should not lay down preflop against only one. Depending of course on your read of the opponents..

I would have re-raised pre-flop and go from there, if he 4 Bets i might start thinking he could have AA but still it a very very hard fold pre flop, specially in a low buy in tournament where you will see many people going all in with a wide range from mid pairs to Ax