ah... Enlightenment...

Ezekiel162

Ezekiel162

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From time to time I will post to this thread when some sort of poker concept/logic, that I couldn't originally grasp, has started to make sense, where it did not for me before.

I finally begin to understand what a 'bluff-catcher' is. Been really using Carbon's HUD and reading many articles on how to read stats properly. I was playing an SNG today and was using a TAG 'persona'. I was up against 2 opponents who's VPIPs were > 45 and was holding like a QJo in EP blinds. Most of the time I would fold these holdings pre, but for some reason I wanted to try something slightly different figuring in a off-handed sort of way "wtf? Why not play 'em? These cards should/would fall somewhere around their ranges. I'm sure they've been bluffin' me out of hands 'cause I'm prob playing too tight. Maybe the QJ is strong enough to catch..." (lightbulb clicks on... Showdown occurs. 1 Player's watching the rest of the game from outside the alley window and the other is hurling insults because he got caught with his hand in the cookie-jar. My response... "Serves you right, ya f'n horse-thief. :p , to KEEP trying to steal from a person who plays like 1 hand in every 5, then instead of folding to a re-steal, you shove? I mean, the nerve of some of these dudes. He's mad at me 'cause he's attempting to rob me and I refuse to allow it? :rolleyes: lol..."

I tried to figure out what a "bluff-catcher" was before, but got hung up on articles getting too technical with it. Sometimes an experience is needed to make things eventually fall into place...

On another note... I've never played live before and wanted to know how to chip shuffle in case I ever do. Recently been practicing with quarters and have finally got it down! :cool: Up to 16 (2 eight stacks...) I was gonna post because I was pretty thrilled but didn't want to get laughed out town for posting such a minor accomplishment...:eek: ah, what the hell... :D

Anyone else get enlightened lately on things about poker they didn't understand b4?
 
WVHillbilly

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Could you describe (or post the hh) the action in the hand above. Can't quite grasp exactly what happened from you post but I think you may be wrong in your thinking.
 
Demonomania

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QJo in EP blinds.

Do you mean the villain was holding QJo in the small blind? I'm guessing that's an early position blind. LOL ..sorry, but I really had to ask.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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well wasn't all the action pre?

I thought bluff catchers were post really, since the bluffer always has equity when called by weak hands.
 
Ezekiel162

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Give me a little while...Need to find tha hand... I was relating more from tha memory of the situation, than from the actuals... Might need a little extra time to convert as well seeing as I've never converted B4. But when I show the hand it should give you approx. feel of the situation I'm referring to... Either way if my thinking is skewed I'm sure you all will let me know...:)
 
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OMGITSOVER9K

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he got 4 bet shoved on as a bluff and called off, I think he's got the idea just applied it wrong.

I'm sure there'll be a bunch of articles on it, just hit up google :)
 
Ezekiel162

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(Re-Enters forum - wearing a paper bag w/ eyeholes cut into it...)


Looks like The NEW enlightenment i've learned (and will work on...) is Memory Retention, Faulty Selective Memory and Utilizing a HH when I babble... In case I get "called" again on the forum. lol... otherwise, the QJo was actually a JTo.

I was not intentionally being untruthful, I was just relating the approximate situation as I recalled it back while writing the above not realizing that the hand would be scrutinized as such... So rather than being a "herb" and coming back and saying "the dog ate my HH", or just not "showing up for school at all" :D , i'll suck up my embarrassment and post back like I said I would... I'll be much more mindful of better accuracy in future posts.

That being said... The situation I described when starting the post above is the result of a couple of hands. The player I eliminated happened B4 this particular situation but was akin to how I am confronting the current player. Realize that over the course a few earlier hands he attempted what seemed to be steals but ONLY when the blinds got to me (seemingly noone else...) each time.

Player Stats
Me(SB) $2005 - VP:7:40 PFR:1:40 AF:6.6 W:1:11|1:1 STL:0:6| 3B:0:9|0:1 CB:1:1|1:1
johannn83(BB) $693 - VP:17:40 PFR:5:40 AF:0.5 W:8:18|3:8 STL:1:6| 3B:2:9| CB:|0:3Hands:40
HAWK1965(UTG) $2337 - VP:14:40 PFR:2:40 AF:0.8 W:5:16|3:5 STL:1:5|1:1 3B:0:13|0:2 CB:|1:2 Hands:40
2ndBanana(CO) $2460 - VP:6:40 PFR:2:40 AF:2.0 W:3:9|2:3 STL:0:3|2:2 3B:2:13|0:1 CB: Hands:40
VACHOUSEK8(BTN) $2280 - VP:12:40 PFR:1:40 AF:5.7 W:5:15|3:5 STL:0:5| 3B:0:11| CB:1:1|1:2 Hands:40

Table and Position Review
Game #54516190-44: Fun Step 2 - No Limit Holdem Tournament - 75.00/150.00
Seat #0: Ezekiel162 (SB), $2005.00
Seat #1: johannn83 (BB), $693.00
Seat #5: HAWK1965, $2337.00
Seat #7: 2ndBanana, $2460.00
Seat #9: VACHOUSEK8 (D), $2280.00

Blinds
Ezekiel162 posts the small blind of 75.00
johannn83 posts the big blind of 150.00

Pre-Flop
Ezekiel162 got hole cards [ Jd: Tc: ]
HAWK1965 raises with 300.00
2ndBanana folds
VACHOUSEK8 folds
Ezekiel162 calls 225.00
johannn83 folds

Flop
Pot: 750
[ Ts: 5s: 4s: ]
Ezekiel162 bets 750.00
HAWK1965 calls 750.00

Turn
Pot: 2250
[ Ts: 5s: 4s: ] [ 6c: ]
Ezekiel162 goes all-in with 1030.00
HAWK1965 calls 1030.00
Ezekiel162 shows [ Jd: Tc: ]
HAWK1965 shows [ As: Kh: ]

River
Pot: 4310
[ Ts: 5s: 4s: ] [ 6c: ] [ Qc: ]

Ezekiel162 wins 4310.00


Convo afterwards went like this-

HAWK1965: dumb fuuking call preflop
Ezekiel162: as stupid as u continuing fool... knowing my range... chat off...


Realize that the purpose I was getting to was just that "I had attempted to catch what I thought to be a bluff" and that normally I
would have folded this hand from tha blinds pre and even if not, most definitely on the raise. It might be misguided seeing as what
he was holding (obviously unknown to me at the time...) but I was attempting to use his stats and play with a hand that seemed
like would hold against his probable/bluff range because I was getting sick of the steal attempts.

Was HAWK1965 correct with his statement? Was this even considered a bluff-catch attempt? Is my my attempts to try to read more into the players like this using the stats misguided (...because he was ahead of me from the get go...)?


hey... no congrats on the quarter shuffling tho? humph! lol...
 
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WVHillbilly

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Well since you were the one doing the betting and he was the one calling with A high, HE was the one trying to bluff catch. You were just value betting TP (I assume you didn't think you were bluffing).
 
Ezekiel162

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Hmm... interesting. I thought originally he would be bluffing because of all of the other attempts and when the 10 hit I was value betting. Should I have put him on the AA, AK, AQ, etc high pp's range... since he was UTG? His raise was kinda corny... The HUD gives like an overview when requested after a certain amount of hands. It had him labeled as a "fish" (I really use the numbers tho', jus' sayin...)
 
Ezekiel162

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... I think he's got the idea just applied it wrong...
Sorry for the quick double post... Just wanted to state this thought is what I was striving at... I'm still trying to relate stats to reads on how to stop most blind steal attempts, and just to see if I am at least going about the logic the right way. thnx Campbell' & WV' 4 tha comments...
 
Ezekiel162

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I'm pretty happy right now. Just won another $1 on tha funsteps for a BR currently of $2.30... yay...:rolleyes: Still have 13 lvl 3 tix left so I'm gonna try to play a few more. The new "enlightenment" is that for some reason when I have more than 15+ tickets I run into extreme variance and as I fall lower with tickets my variance falls to where my skill seems to count again... Go figure huh? From now on any lvl 3's I play will be from less than 14 tix. Same with having lvl 2's collected past 30. Probably why the tixs have such a quick expiration date so that you can't save 'em while waiting for variance to end w/o losin' em. Who knows? Oh well, off to anotha game...:D
 
Ezekiel162

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Reading the posts on donk bets & leads a few days ago has had me take a hiatus from posting lately. I originally was confused by the examples that were discussed until I sat at games and played just for the sake of position and reads on player betting patterns, only... Just to see why some players think tha way they do... How they tick... Finally "enlightened up" to the simple fact that a donk bet cuts into tha flow of aggression when not done properly/for a reason. Heck, if its a dry flop why not let the aggessor use more rope to hang themselves with eventually while trying to c-bet bluff and if wet then their next decision will inform me as to how to proceed while they still have virtually little to no info on my holdings...

It really stings me when members are able to dicuss topics and are like "I would have bet tha flop, checked tha turn, and..." "...well, why not check tha flop, raise tha..." I'll be honest I get lost w/o having to go back and reread the logic behind these different levels of thinking to pick out what exactly is going on and wonder: "Does this sh*t come with more practice, experience, ...?" So i've had to wonder about my own level of play. U know one of the things involving poker is being able to read tells/experience and I worry later that due to lack of knowledge/inexperience on certain matters when discussing something that I think I might know something about is actually portraying me for tha inexperienced fool I might actually be, especially around members that are trained to detect this stuff every day...

Therefore i've been reading/studying/observing more and talking less... Thnx to anyone 4 listening...
 
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I think people get upset when aggression meets yielding. In the case of poker, that would be calling and catching bluffs. Calling is a perfect strategy against an aggressive player. I think most players forget that a large % of the time everyone is dealt junk. Sometimes I play a 35/29 game and others a 19/15 style. Open up poker stove and see how that correlates with the range it shows. Don't always be ready to think you opponent has the nuts. Mostly they do not.
 
Ezekiel162

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Finally took CC members advice and left the FunSteps behind and have taken "baby-steps" in playing the micros for real. (Although every now and then I might play to test out diff strategies and such...)

Been playing the .02/.04 PL ring games and I tell you there is a major difference. More straight-forward. Kinda like not dealing with the rising blinds levels, the constant AIs, Hulk-like aggression & theivin' *ss bluffers. Playing w/ a TAG "persona" and it seems like it's been working well against players that I can tell are used to NL because they try to force as much as they can into the pot hoping for folds using pairs and such instead of speculatives. All in all, I like it. Been able to make a buck in like 10 minutes as opposed to playing 60+ FunStep SNGs to acheive the same buck. Even earned a full star accolade in few days playing cash as opposed to weeks as well. Only thing wrong w/ this is I've been going against the rules of BRM but really have no choice until I build enough of something to use BRM with. lol...

just thought I'd give a quick heads up...
 
Ezekiel162

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So I went on a quest around the world (online anyway... lol) for the "holy HUD" stats and have organized it I think the best suited for me at this point...

LINE 1-
pn(player name):
nh(number of hands):
vp:
pfr:
pa(positional awareness preflop):
bb(big bets) on tournament stats I use (M):

LINE 2-
af & afq:
wtsd & wsd:
stl & fstl:

LINE 3-
cb & fcb:
3b & f3b:
cr(check-raise):
notes:
bbw(big bets won):

Got most of them also to change colors by number values that are akin to M-Level color chart (grey, red, orange, yellow & green + extra lighter shades) The numbers that I have used are pretty much "industry" poker standards by classification (with tweaking from stats from winning player stats as well...) so that I have a nice alerting system as to opponent experience, winning/losing player overall and whether they're a "horse-thief":D or not... I added check-raise to the group because I currently play LHE and a cr is considered a very good indication of a very strong hand so I def want to be alerted if players are doing this... pa and stls to alert me if they are utilizing position to their benefit and bbw to tell me on average if they are a winning/losing player obv...

I'm going to attempt to see if I can customise only one other stat which would be something like "# of hands since the last pre-flop raise" which would be invaluable to me... but I can't find it on PT so I might have to see if I can create it...

Since I utilized the customizations above over the last day or two, I'm up 6BIs and approaching/hitting final tables more often on 180 and less tourneys... let's see how this continues... I'm going to keep tweaking and adding as I go... :)
 
Ezekiel162

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New Enlightenment...

NLHE is not as simple as I expected it to be... LOL...

Took the 6BIs I won on the LHE games beforehand and took my silly behind to a NLHE game. Now I'm down 7BIs... :D

That 3x the bb, 1/2,2/3,3/4, pot-size amounts, stop n gos, floats, etc... sound good when reading and casually conversing about it. Quite different when you're applying it :eek: (say what!!!). That experience seems to come in handy i'm thinking... Gotta take my hat off... seriously... to y'all that that are playing higher stakes... Hopefully I'll get there eventually w/ more practice...:)
 
Ezekiel162

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Was a little bummed after the -7BI caper... So I posted my 1st HA to more knowledgeable players. If I'm correct some of the points that they tried to ingrain from just that hands/stats I believe were:

-I'm overvaluing hands, esp from weaker positions... Learning to fold more hands pre that can't hold up to villain ranges...
-My range should be more balanced. (17/6) stats are just plain... bad...
-Respect villain low vpip/pfr's more... lol... what's that old saying "...takes a stronger hand to call a raise than to make the initial raise itself?... or something to that effect...
-Don't enter a game w/ minimum BI's. Start w/ no less than 100bb... (don't know how the member knew exactly how I had done this but he knew...
-(I'll add as well: Not allow villains to enter hands they shouldn't be in if I'm going to open up a pot - not the situation I was in above but something to at least pay attention to...)

Weird thing happened after acknowledging the above info... I went back to Carbon account (The above HA situation took place on another account which is BR'd and only played on when I "feel" I'm playing well... If/when I make even 1 minor to major mistake I exit the game immediately and try to find my leaks...) where I started in the funsteps and for the heck of it played with all of the above advice to the absolute letter...

Bought one funstep 1 ticket w/ play money...
won fs1 went immediately to fs2
won fs2 went immediately to fs3
won fs3 placed for $1

...within a 2 hour period... Fair to say I was shocked... No, try stunned... I had sessions where I would play 20tix on each level at a time over a course of weeks just to win the same dollar... (maybe it had something to do with the grim determined look on my face, shuffling 2 stacks of quarters with a biker's glove on and the soundtracks from "The Bourne Identity" playing in tha background as well...:D ...jk...)

I think I'll be doing more HA... instead of just coaching myself...
 
TEG2300

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Thank you so much for your honest posting I am grinding up on Carbon and BCP as well. BTW HOOOOORRRAAAAYYYY!!!!!! For the quarter riffle.
 
Ezekiel162

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Thanx Teg'...(For the quarter riffle.... as well :)) I've seen you on tables from time to time grindin' those steps as well... Been playing a little more since the last post and my goal is to try and play one tix at a time and continue towards the dollar when I do play(as above) but acknowledging the things that were brought to my attention during the HA. Good to hear from ya since your last thread...
 
TEG2300

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What is your name on Carbon? I am
TEG2300 on Carbon
logicalf8 on Black Chip Poker
and as of tonight
TEGLOGIC on Hero
 
Ezekiel162

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Same name Teg, Ezekiel162 on Carbon. You've played against me on a different occasion or two...They were on the funsteps... I had sent you a buddy request as well after one of those games figuring that you would associate the name with the forum...
 
Ezekiel162

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Quick Update y'all...

back... got locked up over some real stupid sh*t... mad as f...

luv everyone on the forum... missed y'all... i'll get up soon to talk about poker... i understand now why there is a such thing as a continuation bet... online stuff is NOT rigged i think... played it live everyday in jail... i'll explain later...

yo fletch... i'll get up with you soon buddy...
 
WVHillbilly

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Post like that needs more deets.
 
Ezekiel162

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??? sorry wv... little confused... deets???
yo, nice to hear from you wv....:)
 
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