ace-ten right to call?

tournie the other night I had 3000 the blinds were 2-400 and I was SB there was one caller then the cut off went AI for the remaining 3000 of his chips making it 2800 for me to go, the way I looked at it I had an ace with a reasonable kicker and I had an M of 5 with the BB to come so I called he had ppQ's and I didn't hit the limper folded. Would others have called in this postion or have waited..cheers the sniper it's just one of those marginal desicions that seem to mess me up all the time

I like to play A,10 like small pockets. I will call for as little as possible. If raised before my play, I will fold. There are too many things can go wrong Pre Flop to put most of my chips in. Seeing a cheap flop is more appropriate and you can hit a big hand with it. Most times I do play A,10 I miss.

If I call an all in with A 10 depends on my read of an opponent. If he would push with a mid pocket pair I call. Most of the time though I would be folding here because any two cards higher than 10 will leave me with just the ace to hit the flop and make the highest pair. Obviously either opponent can end up with more than a pair, but that is less likely.

I agree with King. Did you have any kind of read on you opponent? If he was in alot of pots, I probably would have called. If he was a tighter player, fold. Also, did you see him move in with anything else? Remember the the button is to you next hand, so it wouldn't cost you anything to just sit there either.

I guess it would depend on your read of the person more than anything. You're in a real gray area here IMO

Probably fold unless he had been bulling the blinds lately. I constantly catch people shoving ATC when the blinds get this big. However your not in bad shape yet, so you really don't need to call here.

Agreed. A10 after all is a middle sized hand there are not many hands that A10 had to odds over. I see people all the time thinking it is okay to play around with a10. Also with Ace Jack it is just an iffy hand and there is not much it be beat. I always like to have a great read on my opp. and trap him by either having his hand dominated and/or crushed going to the flop.

If the guy has been the bully you would not just call and give him a chance to catch you would shove if this is a much tighter player there is no doubt your hand is crushed here. So get the read on your opp. and you will make a great money making decision in the long run and save alot of money or in this case make it much further into the tourney money.

-Jp

i would much rather push with AT, than to have to make a call. i fold

Just wondering if you're read OP's post here??

Blinds are HUGE relative to stack sizes. There is NO room for play.

CO's range could actually be very wide here and with AT you're probably in decent shape to get your chips in. Although... 'it depends'... it is also player read dependent - - - had CO been shoving much already,.. had they just lost a big hand,... had they been letting themselves blind down for the past umpteen orbits... what kinds of hands were they showing earlier on (if you had a chance to be on same table with them)... what do we know about the BB..... is he on a huge stack.... does he call fairly wide..... what about the EP limper.... are they often limping in on HighBlinds (a HUGE leak btw)... OR do they limp in on AA KK AK, hoping to trap a Shortstack shove coming over the top.

I agree with you saying that this is/'was' a close decision... a tough spot. Personally I think we can put CO (but again... I don't have a read on them) on a fairly wide range here.... prob any pp, KJs+.... so in other words it's probably +EV for you to call.

Sure you can wait.... but how has this table been playing? Have there been many spots to try to shove on the blinds? Are the players to your left reasonably tight players or are they known for calling wide? You could fold... & wait.. & wait... BUT.. you really can't afford to wait much longer anyways... Maybe another round.. or 2? Will you get that chance?

Um... really not sure how folks figure that you're not in bad shape here on 3k with blinds at 200/400???

I don't know if this is a turbo SNG or a MTT but for turbo SNG you are in fairly good shape. The hero still has 7&1/2 BB's, which Isn't exactly the red zone yet. I agree A-10 could easily be the best hand here but your also fliping against against a large range of hands here and dominated by a bunch others.

Here's a simple range of hands I see people willing to shove with in these situations.

Domined By: AA,KK,QQ,JJ,10's,AK,AQ,AJ
Slight Underdog: 22-99
Tie: A10
Slight Favorite: KQ,KJ,JQ
Medium Favorite K6-K9
Large Favorite: A2-A9 K10


As you can see there is more hands you will be dominated by or slight underdog by, then you will be a favorite against. My personal preference is to avoid these situations. I don't want to play good poker for 30 mins to an hour for me to only get my chips in the middle of such a marginal situation.

I would of folded to the all-in. I will shove with it.
Even if you had not, said what he had i would of told you to fold.
A bit more info would of helped, was he tight, or loose? If he was playing tight i would of folded, how ever if i would of had a read on him being loose, i would of shoved on it.

it really seems like you had to do that because of the blinds , but i think its a wrong move to call all in with A 10. too much cards that can beat you , too much cards that you will be a big underdog.

i definitely fold here....in most cases u are most certainly beat and u really just begging to be in a race

I would fold here at best case it seems like you only have a 50/50 chance at the pot.

I don't mind my M hitting 5, but that is when it starts to become push or fold. Depending on your read of this player its either an easy call or an easy fold. With no read at all I fold this all day long. If they are loose and aggressive with a really wide range from LP then call, if not fold. Also depends on what the BB is playing like, whether you can put them on a call or fold would help. Would have to say I fold this hand probably 8 out of 10 times.

Depends how he had been playing up til then but I probably would've folded as I'm a chicken when it comes to calling an all in

I would have folded there definatly,and live to fight another day.

The only time i would play A10 in most cases ,i would have to be the first 1 raising the pot,other then that ,if you call a rase (or a all in )and u hit a A,u still would be in a tough situation to knowing where u stand.

the only nice flop with that hand would be a 10 high flop.

Lazmansa

My play depends on what he has been doing the last several hands. Has he been shoving to steal the blinds or has he been folding waiting for that hand. If he has been shoving to steal, I would call and of course this would be the one time he has a real hand. If he has been folding, I know that he prolly has a top 5 hand and I fold.

Fold Fold Fold!! The other player took control of the hand. There were a good number of hands that had you beat. I don't agree with the king's idea of calling if you think they have a mid pocket pair. at best you're a coin flip.

Difficuly one. It isone of those in between hands. There is a fair chance the guy is going for it trying to steal the blinds thinking everybody will run scared. The decision depends on a lot of factors mainly your read on the player. I think unless I had a good read on him I would have saved my chips.

My first thought is to fold quickly. Sure pushing AI with A-10, given the blinds and your stack, would make sense. But calling with it; I don't know.

You'd expect he's got either a pair or a better kicker, in which case you might be dominated. Even if you have the better hand going in, you won't be much of a favorite to any hand. I would think you'd have a better opportunity to force the action instead of reacting to it, even if you need to wait another round or so.

By the way, I went out last night on a hand where I simply called for 120 with KK, hoping someone would raise behind me (normally I wouldn't do that, but I'm in a bit of a slump lately). In any case, the small blind raised to 360, and I bet 850 or so, trying to take the pot right there. Instead he went all-in for his remaining 1300, perhaps thinking I was trying to steal the pot. In my opinion I was already committed and called (he had a few more chips than I did to start). I was afraid he was going to roll over two Aces, but instead he showed A-10. At least they were suited .

In any case, the flop and turn were harmless, but he paired his A on the river, and I got to go to bed relatively early. I did notice his comment to the table in response to the "wow" from another, saying "I should be gone". Small consolation for me, and I still think you, and he, should fold A-10.

what kind of tourney? MTT? SNG? how many people left.... etc?......secondly I think this is a sure fold unless you have a pretty good read on the villian.....take the 200 chip hit.....Ace ten doesnt have much value to me in a raised pot.....

I agree with the bold text.

You are calling for all of your chips here. A10 is not a calling hand. More info is needed as well. Like the type of the tourney ect, because I would have shoved my stack long before this.

There is a huge difference between shoving with hands and calling a shove for most or all of your chips. The low level tourney players don't understand this. You are better to shove with any two cards on the button, Cut off or Hijack than you are to call a shove with A10.

He is not in good shape here and doesn't have any time. The size of the other stacks are needed here, but I would rather be shoving if I still have FE left than calling, unless I have a monster. A10 is a horrible hand to call with. Against KK, QQ and JJ you only have three outs. Against AK, AQ or AJ you are dominated. You should never call for most or all of you chips with A10, wait for a spot to open shove with 72 is a better play than calling with A10!! Do you get what I'm saying?

Everyone knows about the "Gap Concept".. and that you need a much better hand to call with.. than you'd need to be shoving with.... BUT.. this is a low stakes tourney.. no?... quite often other players will be calling you really light.

Second part.. bold italics..... ok.. here again.. because your opponent's range could really be quite wide (you say so yourself... better to 'open shove' with 7-2o).. AT could be in decent shape here against his range... and with the extra dead money in the pot, the fact that you're short-stacked... AND that you might just not find that 'spot' where you can open shove again (and if &/or when you do.. your FoldEquity might be non-existent). All reasons why getting it in here with AT really isn't all that bad imo.... but it's close.

push all in with ace 10-maybe.
call all in with ace 10-no.

I wouldn't say everyone knows about the "Gap Concept", we are in the learning poker forum.

Me saying open shove with 72 was me making a point in saying open shoving with anything is better than calling with A10. And I also said I would have shoved long before this due to the blinds. Yes FE is very important so knowing what the other stacks are is key and we don't have that info for this situation. Also, we were not given any reads on the opponent, we don't know if he has been shoving frequent up to this. Yes, he's in a stealing position, but it doesn't mean to call for you whole stack either, because again we have no reads on this player.

That depends on the way the all in player played before!
If he played tight you know that he got a big pair or Ax. And then you will probably be an underdog.
You should lay down this hand then, even with an M under 5....

this is a clear fold IMO. what hands do you got beat here? not too many. how beat you? lots. i think its very important to use what harrington called "first in vigor" be the one shoving not calling. that way you gain fold equity. remember "it takes a better hand to call with than it does to raise with" I agree AT is a great hand to shove here but not to call with. I'm not quite sure what i would call with here. probably something like 88+ AQs+ or wider if i think his range is alot wider than that. you got to remember your short stacked yes but you still have a few free hands to see before the blinds come. I say look for a chance to "push" instead of calling.

you only had 200 invested in the small blind, it would have been better to fold this hand and wait for the button, cause its better to push than call someone else's odds, and you were putting yourself in a coinflip at best but domination by a wide variety of hands, I would rather push with 2 7 than call with A10 as bizarre as that may sound but it takes a bigger hand to call with that to push with

A-10 is a teaser at best at this point but mostly a Brugh hand ...its a fold IMO at this time.

From the info given I would fold for the following reasons. If you call and the guy holds 49os or some other BS hand he still has live cards and will out draw you 30% or more. Many times he will hold a larger ace and you will be dominated. A small PP and your flipping a coin for your tournament life with no fold equity.

If I were holding the A 10 and it was folded to me, I would push it from MP most of the time. This is about the low range I would push from with my M above 3. I would also push any PP once my M reaches 5(in an unopened pot that is).

If I let my M shrink to around 3, it's time to push almost ATC in an unopened pot. The only cards I fold are 23,24, and others that are in the bottom 10% of starting hands. You are still doing better pushing with 96os than calling with A10 because at your getting some fold equity IMHO.

Questions for the OP:

Is this a MTT or SNG?

Are you on the bubble, far from it, or ITM?

What are the other players stacks and how many at the table?

this is a fairly EZ fold for me