PS Negative Balance - Advice?

As a birthday gift I gave a friend $150 to play on PS--he didn't want to create his own account, so I allowed him to use mine and to keep whatever winnings because I was currently focusing on my BR at FT. Anyway, I deposited the money around Dec. 15th and the poor guy had a bad run and lost it all. Oh well, at least he had fun (I hope).
Anyway, I never see that deposit on my bank statement, and then I go to check out the account and I now have a -$150 balance, along with an email saying that the deposit wasn't processed due to Reason: Transaction not Processed. There's nothing wrong with my bank account--all info was correct and I have plenty of funds, and nothing's wrong with my deposits, no returned check fees, etc. Also, the email didn't seem to be 'blaming' me, it really just seemed like they were trying to say that they just forgot to charge me.
So, they're asking that I make another deposit to clear the negative balance.

Soooo.

I'm too well brought up to 'steal,' but I am wondering what exactly would happen if I just, say, didn't correct the negative balance and didn't play on PS anymore? Don't yell at me--I AM planning on just trying to fix the situation and give them the money, but technically, if they screwed up and didn't charge me, what would happen if I just didn't deposit anymore? Has anyone been in this situation before?
Also, if eChecks is one of my only options for depositing, how am I going to trust that if I try to deposit using that method again to clear the negative balance, it will work this time? Seems like an endless circle of fail, PS.
Will probably end up just resolving the balance, unless someone tells me that I can easily get away with what was their mistake. Probably not. Maybe $5, but not $150.

Thoughts?

This situation has happened a few times recently but the way it looks, if you just vanished, they cant do anything but then again, they do have your personal information so....

Yep, name, address, bank account, etc. Can't see them making a fuss that I should be particularly worried about, but I also would rather there not be a fuss at all. Just wondering if anyone here has gone either way with this one and could let me know what the outcome was.

If you lost your wallet on the street with $150 in it, would you want someone to keep it all or get it all back to you? "Do unto others..."

If you want an honest opinion.

If you do not pay PS back you are a straight up "plain thief". You put the money on PS knowing they were giving you the money in trade for real money from your bank account. Whatever reason that trade was preempted, you still rightfully owe the money to PS.

If enough people do not pay PS, they will stop offering people the chance to deposit thru this method because of people that also try to steal from them.

You really want to screw over the largest poker site in the world for $150?

Also, if you decide not to play PS back, in many cases, they will go back to anyone that has transfered to you (or has IP matches to you) and freeze their account to get the $150 back. (I have seen where they froze the account of a friend who played one time at a guys house who did not pay PS back)

Some really puritanical folks on here, but...

Basically, if you're in the US, they have no recourse to make you resolve the negative balance, no more than you would have if someone stole money out of your account. The fact that they are unable to process the deposit is on them, not you. You made a deposit in good faith and they were unable to process it. If they really wanted to cover their asses, they wouldn't approve a deposit until it was exactly that - approved. Since interactions between you are unregulated it then becomes a personal question for yourself to answer - besides, their estimated net worth is in the hundreds of millions.

I personally believe in Karma.
They probably won't do anything if you don't pay it back, but your car will probably need a part soon in excess of the amount, or something will happen that will end up costing more.
jmo

I don't understand this, you GAVE your friend money to deposit or you made a deposit for him to your PS account using eCheck?
Whatever way this went down, you're not out the money unless you trusted your friend to deposit the money into your bank account which he failed to do.
If you havn't given your friend the money then you still owe PS the money, otherwise you are a thief.

Well, I'm going to resolve the negative balance (as soon as I find out what deposit method will actually work and not cause this sort of problem again). Really, I just wanted to know how hard I need to kick myself afterwards because it seems like you can easily get away with just not re-depositing since they messed up and just didn't charge me in the first place. If only I had no moral compass . . . le sigh.

Now if they offered some sort of bonus for being a loyal customer, I'd do this more readily.

Thanks for the thoughts, guys.

Having been in retail for years, I found out that THIS ^^^^ is the exact same reasoning that most shoplifters use. "Big company can afford it, so why not?" LOL! Too many reasons "why not". But at the top of the list is that it isn't rightfully yours. Period.

And since when does being honest and just = "puritanical"? LMAO!

And let's see...having been in retail for years, do you give someone merchandise if their credit card doesn't go through? No. You tell them it is declined. This is exactly what 'big company' did not do. The onus falls on the company that did not cover their own backs. You don't wait 10 days to check the deposit and then call them on the phone and tell them to return their TV, do you? Or I don't know, maybe that is your experience in all your years of retail experience.

Oh, and I also find it funny that you deleted this:

"Actually it is just the type of stance you would expect a multi-accounter to take, who likely stole from a staking site on a previous account."

You see folks, when people get instant notification, we get to see what someone deleted and thought better of. So, at the very least, you get kudos for deciding not to infer that sort of nonsense.

There is a moral issue here you seem to be overlooking.
They gave him the 150, it was spent, he should rectify the situation.
I really could care less if he does or not, it effects my life in no way, but to suggest keeping it would be right is just immoral and imo same as stealing.
And as well as what WEC said, if enough ppl do this crap it hurts those who use echeck and then will have to wait 10 days after a deposit to play.

Well since you picked up on it..I will repost.

I find it funny that someone who likely has stolen from a staking site (you) has posted that people are "puritanical folks on here". It is also 99% likely you are a multi-accounter.

Seeing that you were instantly banned from a staking site upon appearance is what I am basing this on. SO please, explain this...and why you were Banned upon application.

http://forum.parttimepoker.com/members/edgie212.html

I will be happy to have this removed entirely and offer my sincere apologies if I am mistaken in some way.

Oh SNAP!!!!

I used to read PTP forums, but haven't in some time. The fact that they use the terminology of 'banned' is a mystery to me, as the statistics clearly state that I have never been staked any amount of money in any situation, nor have I staked anyone else. The only conclusion I can draw, considering how quickly you came up with this misinformation, is that you are probably some sort of mod on PTP and decided to make it look that way yourself. I could be wrong, but then again, you've probably been way too busy in your retail career to have that sort of position.

It happens I am familar with PTP practices because I work with them and several other sites to root out cheaters, Multi-Accounters, and other scammers. Unfortunately, lots of people like to rip-off others, rip-off the sites, and generally take money from others anyway they can online. Several of us in the poker community work to prevent these types as much as possible.

After a quick email to PTP, I have learned that you are given that title if you applied to stake someone or be staked and never submitted your current bankroll and all the other necessary information after applying. Since I felt uncomfortable with the idea of staking or staking anyone else at the onset, I never followed through with the application. SO, my apologies to think that you might be a PTP mod, but either way...

1. I have never cheated by multi-accounting.
2. I have often honored private transfers between several CC members.
3. I have never taken money from a staking site, nor have I ever been staked.
4. I have bought pieces of people on ChipMeUp, and maybe won 10 bucks from it.

So, that's almost all I have to say. Despite all my honorable activity, I still feel the fault is on PS to not do due diligence on verifying the deposit immediately - if you don't have the ability to do that, then don't credit the account until you can. That's how all businesses work, it is how banks work (any out--of-town checks to my bank take 3 days to clear), so the fact that a poker site can be some sort of exception seems alien to me...and what is even more alien is that my personal morality could come into question when the solution for this sort of problem is obvious.

Just to clarify since this poster doesn't have the sense to properly acknowledge that he has switched who he is addressing when he posts consecutively: That quote was NOT mine.

And with that, I exit this thread. GL with this guy, folks.

Wow!!! Is this thread, like, turning into a catfight????

obviously the honest thing should be done.

"•We reserve the right to recover a bad debt either by a) debiting the amount owed from your PokerStars account balance; b) representing the eCheck for the same amount or the amount plus an administration fee; or c) by sending the account to a Collections Agency."

•We reserve the right to add your name and personal information to both proprietary and public negative databases (NDB) that may inhibit or prevent you from using your checking account in a retail environment.
•You agree that We may charge the maximum administrative fee allowable by law to recover costs associated with the above.

I don't understand.
Do you have -150$ bankroll or it is just unprocessed transaction?
I don't believe first thing is possible-if you don't have money you can't play.
You have to send them copy of bank statement etc. and it will be easy solved

If you sent a check to pay your car payment, and your bank that holds the lien on your car didn't process payment and it wasn't taken out of your account, do you blame them and not make payment?

This going for anyone that you have paid a servce to?

hmm and people say the pokersites are out to cheat you---buhaha.

So.. pokersite does a favour to players to make it more convenient for them to deposit & then play right away so this = fk them over if poss. cuz it's their fault? (sounds 'honorable')

'Your' bank maybe.. but not mine. Out-of-town cheques are cashed instantaneously even with a next to zero bank balance. Perhaps it has something to do with my past 'honorable activity' with them??

Well, hopefully it'll please you all to know that I've paid the negative balance.

Really, I was just wondering if anyone else has been in this situation and I wanted to know what happened to them if they decided no to redeposit, mostly out of curiosity. Doesn't look like anybody here has experience in this, though.

I wonder if the reason for this processing error was a result of their struggle with the laws in America, or just a sleepy employee who didn't charge me, haha.

My understanding it is a struggle with the processors in the US, many of whom keep getting busted by the US Govt authorities. I have read now of many examples where peoples bank accounts were not debited properly.

I think you did the right thing by paying them. Just to add whatever type of controls they have in place obviously are flawed... so it's hard to feel bad for pokerstars if they do lose money. But it's better to avoid them sending your info to a collection agency. I'm not sure if they just say it to scare you or if 150 is the type if balance they would bother going after, but I'm thinking there might be a chance it can hit your credit score, which wouldn't be worth messing with.

And as others have said, using the excuse that it's big business and saying they can afford to lose 150 here an there is a bit flawed. Most likely if this happens enough, the cost will get transferred to the consumer either in the for
of fees or making it harder to deposit.

So in the end... Good choice! I applaud you

Excepty pokerstars is a huge corporation that makes money off, what is for many, an addiction.

I'm not sure it's the same thing as finding a wallet on the street.

Imo OP, don't play on pokerstars any more. They won't just remove $150 from you bank account, not sure they could even do that.

Worst case scenario, they manage to get the money back and you can go play there again.

It is almost the same as bouncing a check when you pay for merchandise from a store, they let you leave with the merchandise, if you bounce you still have to pay it back, and can even go to jail if you don't depending on the price.

I just ran into this problem myself.

We have been informed that the following deposit could not be processed:

Reference Number : 500157894
Amount: USD 50.00
Date: 2011/01/23
Reason: Transaction Not Processed

These funds were credited to your PokerStars account when you made your deposit request however due to a processing problem the transaction was never sent to your bank. As we didn't receive funds for this deposit, the amount of your unprocessed deposit has been deducted from your PokerStars account balance.

They openly admit they forgot to send it to my bank! Notice how there is no mention of just sending it to my bank after they discovered the. Just "Oh, we screwed up so now we're freezing your account." They go on to say they are sorry for the inconvenience but go ahead and make other payment arrangements to us.

Here's the problem, I simply went to do another echeck and it says my state doesn't allow echecks anymore. Being a multimillion dollar corporation you would think they would be aware of when a state is declining what is probably the most common payment method. Ok fine, I says to myself, I'll just put it on my Visa. Shocker, that doesn't work. The only option left is for Western Union or a money order. Well I had made 3 small deposits in the couple of days following this one for amounts ranging from $20-$50. Am I going to run into this issue with all of them in the coming days?

Here's the biggest gripe I have, money orders and Western Union aren't free! They cost money plus my free time which I value. I simply refuse to do it because the agreement was made to make a payment using a certain method. I never agreed to this, they are draining addition money and time from me so in a sense PokerStars is stealing from me. I have the money so it's not about that, if they want to fix whatever issues they have and accept payment with the agreed upon method then that is fine with me. Until then they won't see a dime from me. There you have it Clubsta, there is someone who ran into this and refuses to pay. That person is me.

Yeah...it is happening alot. I guess you spent the money and you feel fine stealing it from them. Nothing more than a common thief. You must be proud to be a low-life since you made an account just to post this.

Of course, this same guy would be first in line to post and cry if PokerStars made his deposit wait until it cleared the bank. They gave you a courtesy by giving you an immediate deposit, and you feel fine cheating them.

PS tries to keep poker alive in the US by attemping ways to keep money coming into the community, and guys like this POS do all they can to screw it up. They could have run out of the US like so many others, or cheated you like so many crap sites that have come and go after swindling players.

They should be able to compensate you for your fees using the above methods. Full tilt does it all the time, and Pokerstars support is notoriously better than FT.

There's a separate thread about the echeck issue in certain states that popped up here PokerStars and Echecks

Well aren't we quick to judge. I am hardly a thief sir, maybe you skimmed over the part where I mentioned I am more than glad to pay them the money, it's the additional fees and time they now require that I have a problem with. How would you feel if you made a purchase at a store and then they sent you a notice afterward saying oh by the way by making a purchase with us you have to spend an additional amount of money and time that you never agreed upon?

I have emailed them to discuss options and resolve this issue. They simply have to credit me the fees or throw a few tournament tickets my way or something, I'm easy to work with. However I will not ask for it, I want to see what kind of customer service they have. As of yet I have not received a response.

Also you made an assumption that I created an account here just to post about this. That is incorrect, sir. I found this site by searching for this topic and wouldn't you know it someone asked for input from someone who has run into this situation. That would be me. This seemed like an interesting site so I created an account to be an active member and provide feedback that is relative to the topic. If I am misunderstanding the concept then I apologize.

Lastly I am many things but a POS I am not. An asshole for sure, but not a POS.