Help needed- got 2 accounts on PS and want to cash out- can i?

#**141** 19-03-2008, 5:21 AM

Quote:

well rounded, intellegent individual. I.E....he thinks through his response before speaking. (which is more than I can say for some others in this thread

)

Of course I may be a little biased in my last post.....Zachy is a little cutie pie in his avatar (if that's really him?)
I'm a sucker for guys who wear glasses....

#**142** 19-03-2008, 5:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardfetish

Ok, the purpose of a forum is to debate. Not everyone will agree on everything, but when your are offering your opinion to the side of your choice there is no reason to be openly rude. I think the above statement was a little harsh. Zach is entirely welcome to have his own opinion on this matter as are you. While my opinion does differ slightly from his, I have found no need to be hostile in MY responses to his debate, and he has been equally respectful in return. This in my opinion, is the hallmark of a well rounded, intellegent individual. I.E....he thinks through his response before speaking. (which is more than I can say for some others in this thread)

Please respect all of our members, whether or not you share their views on certain subjects. In return for this, you shall earn their respect

i've got little respect for incessant, rule-book weilding kids who try to defend pokersites that won't even defend themselves. i'm new here and have no problem with anyone, but i strongly disagree with a lot of what's being said in this thread. thank you for the reminder though.

#**143** 19-03-2008, 5:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smae

i've got little respect for incessant, rule-book weilding kids who try to defend pokersites that won't even defend themselves. thank you for the reminder though.

I guess this means you are not an open-minded individual who can debate intelligently with people(regardless of age) who have opinions that differ from yours. Your way or the highway? At least Zach was receptive to a different point of view and acknowledged it, casting aside his own opinon to validate it. Although he still stuck to his guns and did not waiver in his opinion. This shows his maturity.

I also would not use the word "kid" when addressing him. He may be young, but he certainly has proved by his responses in this thread and others, that he his anything but. Some others who have replied to him in crude simple-minded form have proved their childishness.

#**144** 19-03-2008, 6:11 AM

i have supported my opinion maturely and with just cause. this is not a debate of who is more receptive to others' opinions, as i have respected his opinion and have not thrown out childish insults or disrespected him in any way. if he was offended by my telling him to shut up, i'm sure he would have made it known himself; and if he was indeed offended by my statement, it would behoove him and you to wear a little bit thicker skin when debating. this isn't and has not been a completely proper argument or debate, so i'm not sure why you are trying to make it seem as such, and going out of your way to lecture me on my own tactics and thoughts is confusing to me - but you are entitled to your proclivities. i am not arguing that there aren't immature people posting meaningless things in this thread or in others, but i assure you i am not one of them - and i suppose i shouldn't have presumed that this would be apparent.

#**145** 19-03-2008, 7:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevadanick

I agree completely. Assisting in more cheating to correct cheating (an oxymoron at best) is aiding the cheats. Think folks! After the other threads about content here being posted on other forums, wouldn't this be a nice juicy tidbit for someone to pick up on.

The headlines now: " See how they do it on Cardschat " ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceeQ

I'm sorry, I don't want to be mean, but, come ON you guys! It's kids like this guy that do dumb stuff like this that are the reason the "moral majority" is trying to outlaw online poker in the US. Let's not forget that he also broke the law (I don't know anywhere where gambling under 18 is legal), not to mention commited a certain degree of fraud. You guys with your solutions are only pacifying this behaviour by offering more fraudulent alternatives...

Exactly as above, and whats to stop CC's Poker Stars rep reading this thread, then CC getting in the shit over our members discusing ways to defraud Poker Stars.
Kiss it goodbye my young friend.

#**146** 19-03-2008, 2:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardfetish

But on the flipside, I used to Work/(Live) at a pool hall that incorporated gambling in ALL forms. I don't think poker itself is addictive in the crackhead sense. Gambling is. Betting money on anything can become addictive. Playing online poker to win $ is addictive to some. If it wasn't, then why are we so drawn to spend hours upon hours doing it? I enjoy ice-cream, am I so addicted to it that I must have some every 30mins or I get DT's? No. I enjoy cigarrettes, am I so addicted to them I must have one every 30mins or I get DT's? Absolutely!

Same can be said for those who feel compelled to gamble, and unfortunately online poker is a form of gambling, therefore one can become addicted to it. If we all didn't show some addictive tendencies towards poker, then this forum would have nothing to talk about. Thread upon thread analyzing,bragging,venting,and begging (for passwords), all in the name of this wonderfully addictive game called poker

A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that because a lot of bookies also run poker sites, that poker can be part of a gambling problem. Poker is a game of skill, so is pool, they're not addictive. Saying that this forum is here only because poker is addictive is a bit like saying that forums for pregnant women prove that pregnancy is addictive, or forums discussing tax laws prove that tax laws are addictive - it just doesn't make sense.

#**147** 19-03-2008, 2:51 PM

Actually, most forums exist because... forums/web chat can be addictive on its own :-)

#**148** 19-03-2008, 4:56 PM

Ive just had a read through all responses so far, and its nice to see a wide range of responses (well about 80/20 in favour of this being theft/stealing/corruption of the USA government).

I think i have this right so ive made a flow chart of this thread as a summary:

Help i have two accounts > silly kid dont help him > this is theft > major fraud > his parents must be so messed up > legal ages > addictions.
(with a side order of personal "i can out debate you")

Id just like to respond to a few points i have read:
1. defrauding other CC members: I dont agree with this because im a member of CC and pokerstars. Its not as if i had 2 accounts in the same tournament i played as me, my brain. I think the only possible arguments here are that you may have notes on my style, but i only play hubble tournaments so its unlikley you have ever played me.
2. Defrauding pokerstars: Well, in the beginning, yes. Around six months before my 18th i set up the orignal account. Now however im 18 so if i wanted to set up an account in my own name i could. Im not playing underage now as i wasnt when in the CC tournament. It didnt really bother me as i wasnt planning to deposit, i just wanted to play poker as a hobby just as i like playing football (soccer) or rugby. Does this make me an addict? If i was i could have put money in long ago (yes i have credit cards).
3. The argument i changed the RNG so others got different cards: Again relating to point 2. Im 18 now so legally i can play, just again the account holders name is different. I consulted Stephen Hawking and he assures me i didnt change the space/time contineum. I dont know if you saw the phil ivey interview last week? he said he would of won but at the last minute an extra person entered the tournament so he got dealt different cards and lost. Sounds like a Phil helmuth statement to me.
4. My parents are at fault: Sorry this does bother me, it sounds like im from a broken background dealing drugs on a council estate. Im sure this point came from our USA counterparts who in some areas at are a little backwards (Amish town is it- not sure) at times. Where do you think my mum (yes mum not mom) would rather have me be? Out on the streets or inside playing a stratgy game for fun. I have never been in trouble, in fact i have never even spoken to a police officer in an official capacity.
5. Crimes/feloneys: i cant even believe this has to be responded to. Pokerstars is worth $30billion approx. according to a new times article. I now work as an auditor so i can tell you that every company has a materialitly level of which amounts under this are not even worth bothering about. Pokerstars will be easily in the millions. This line of argument makes it sound like in going to be extradited to stand before a supreme court.
6. General: Seems like there some egos in this thread. Zac at first i though you were a holier-than-thou figure. A few of you posts have been informative and have great points, i cant work out if you just love arguing for the sake of it. Having been through the thread i think im of the opinion that my thoughts are different from yours so its cool that we can have a debate of a forum, the perpose its intended. Lets not get into telling people they are wrong (thats not aimed at you zac just people in general because there been a couple of posts hinting this to each other).

thanks for reading, i await your responses.

#**149** 19-03-2008, 5:05 PM

I think were many of us got hung up was that we were under the impression you won your money when you were underage. In re-reading the OP, unless you turned 18 last weekend, you more than likely were of age when you played the tournies. So this pretty much throws 80% of our arguments out the window since we were stuck on the "fact" that you were underage when you won. If the only difference now is geographic, I would say you could tell them you moved and it would be no big deal. I've never cashed out, but I wouldn't guess they ask your age anyway. If you send them your ID and it shows you are 18+ right now, they will probably be OK with that.

#**150** 19-03-2008, 5:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oakie

2. Defrauding pokerstars: Well, in the beginning, yes. Around six months before my 18th i set up the orignal account. Now however im 18 so if i wanted to set up an account in my own name i could. Im not playing underage now as i wasnt when in the CC tournament. It didnt really bother me as i wasnt planning to deposit, i just wanted to play poker as a hobby just as i like playing football (soccer) or rugby. Does this make me an addict? If i was i could have put money in long ago (yes i have credit cards).

The only defrauding I have talked about was the changing countries and entering tournaments you had no right to be in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oakie

3. The argument i changed the RNG so others got different cards: Again relating to point 2. Im 18 now so legally i can play, just again the account holders name is different. I consulted Stephen Hawking and he assures me i didnt change the space/time contineum. I dont know if you saw the phil ivey interview last week? he said he would of won but at the last minute an extra person entered the tournament so he got dealt different cards and lost. Sounds like a Phil helmuth statement to me.

You're right, anyone who knows anything about chaos theory realizes that in a random event, something that affects the rng in an unknown way has not cheated anyone. If you lose a tournament do you think "darn, shoulda gotten to the casino at a different time so I got a different seat"? If you can't predict the outcome based on the problem, the problem can not be
blamed for the results.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oakie

5. Crimes/feloneys: i cant even believe this has to be responded to. Pokerstars is worth $30billion approx. according to a new times article. I now work as an auditor so i can tell you that every company has a materialitly level of which amounts under this are not even worth bothering about. Pokerstars will be easily in the millions. This line of argument makes it sound like in going to be extradited to stand before a supreme court.

McDonalds is worth a ton of money too, but if an employee steals $20 out of a register I'm sure they'll be prosecuted. No one mentioned the Supreme Court, you're the one blowing things out of proportion. Pokerstars would simply take your money as they are legally entitled to when you break the terms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oakie

6. General: Seems like there some egos in this thread. Zac at first i though you were a holier-than-thou figure. A few of you posts have been informative and have great points, i cant work out if you just love arguing for the sake of it. Having been through the thread i think im of the opinion that my thoughts are different from yours so its cool that we can have a debate of a forum, the perpose its intended. Lets not get into telling people they are wrong (thats not aimed at you zac just people in general because there been a couple of posts hinting this to each other).

thanks for reading, i await your responses.

A holier-than-thou figure? You asked a question and I answered it, and then I addressed posts directly to me. I'd like to know where anyone's getting this idea.

#**151** 19-03-2008, 5:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oakie

Ive just had a read through all responses so far, and its nice to see a wide range of responses (well about 80/20 in favour of this being theft/stealing/corruption of the USA government).

I think i have this right so ive made a flow chart of this thread as a summary:

Help i have two accounts > silly kid dont help him > this is theft > major fraud > his parents must be so messed up > legal ages > addictions.
(with a side order of personal "i can out debate you")

Id just like to respond to a few points i have read:
1. defrauding other CC members: I dont agree with this because im a member of CC and pokerstars. Its not as if i had 2 accounts in the same tournament i played as me, my brain. I think the only possible arguments here are that you may have notes on my style, but i only play hubble tournaments so its unlikley you have ever played me.
2. Defrauding pokerstars: Well, in the beginning, yes. Around six months before my 18th i set up the orignal account. Now however im 18 so if i wanted to set up an account in my own name i could. Im not playing underage now as i wasnt when in the CC tournament. It didnt really bother me as i wasnt planning to deposit, i just wanted to play poker as a hobby just as i like playing football (soccer) or rugby. Does this make me an addict? If i was i could have put money in long ago (yes i have credit cards).
3. The argument i changed the RNG so others got different cards: Again relating to point 2. Im 18 now so legally i can play, just again the account holders name is different. I consulted Stephen Hawking and he assures me i didnt change the space/time contineum. I dont know if you saw the phil ivey interview last week? he said he would of won but at the last minute an extra person entered the tournament so he got dealt different cards and lost. Sounds like a Phil helmuth statement to me.
4. My parents are at fault: Sorry this does bother me, it sounds like im from a broken background dealing drugs on a council estate. Im sure this point came from our USA counterparts who in some areas at are a little backwards (Amish town is it- not sure) at times. Where do you think my mum (yes mum not mom) would rather have me be? Out on the streets or inside playing a stratgy game for fun. I have never been in trouble, in fact i have never even spoken to a police officer in an official capacity.
5. Crimes/feloneys: i cant even believe this has to be responded to. Pokerstars is worth $30billion approx. according to a new times article. I now work as an auditor so i can tell you that every company has a materialitly level of which amounts under this are not even worth bothering about. Pokerstars will be easily in the millions. This line of argument makes it sound like in going to be extradited to stand before a supreme court.
6. General: Seems like there some egos in this thread. Zac at first i though you were a holier-than-thou figure. A few of you posts have been informative and have great points, i cant work out if you just love arguing for the sake of it. Having been through the thread i think im of the opinion that my thoughts are different from yours so its cool that we can have a debate of a forum, the perpose its intended. Lets not get into telling people they are wrong (thats not aimed at you zac just people in general because there been a couple of posts hinting this to each other).

thanks for reading, i await your responses.

if you're a professional auditor i HOPE that you can work on your spelling skills, since they seem to be a bit 'underpaid.' lol.

as for the original poster, if you need a USA address to use in court, i'm a witness that says you lived with me in the US when you bought in.

#**152** 19-03-2008, 5:25 PM

I was having fun with the RNG thing. But, if you registered in a tourney that you shouldn't have been in and it hit capacity, then you really did cheat a legit player out of their seat. How wrong is it, that's a personal call, but it would not have been right. (not to say I always do the right thing BTW, just stating a fact)

#**153** 19-03-2008, 5:40 PM

A holier-than-thou figure? You asked a question and I answered it, and then I addressed posts directly to me. I'd like to know where anyone's getting this idea.[/quote]

yes sorry about that zac it was just fustration at the fact we lost sight of the the orginal question (which is sorted now) and everyone focused on the problem not the solution but yours was the only name i could remember at the time lol.

As for the mcdonalds point, the till would say how much you should have as it knows what you started with and calculates whats left. So you would notice a difference whereas with non cash the materiality is calculated so transactions over this are looked at and agreed to documents to show they went to the right place (eg invoices). Even then its chance as only 10% of this transaction level may be picked up.

#**154** 19-03-2008, 7:29 PM

OH ZACHVAC, just leave all these people argue between each other, you made the right points and backed them up. Everyone argueing against you is in the mood of 'well i said the opposite to zachvac at the start, so i must hang onto any little thread to prove i am right, must not change mind'

#**155** 19-03-2008, 7:44 PM

I told my kids "do what you are supposed to do, when you are supposed to do it" . This eliminates 90% of your potential problems. As for the OP he screwed up and he should take resposibility for it. Email pokerstars ,explain and let the chips fall where the may. All the other talk in this thread is superfluous.

#**156** 19-03-2008, 10:50 PM

From Poker Forum > General Discussion > Introductions posted on 16-09-2007, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

I've been playing poker for a few years now, I'm a freshman at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, I'm from Maryland, just north of DC (Germantown for anyone familiar with the area, it's in Montgomery County). I started playing poker 4 years ago now with a group of friends, we'd have 5/10 cent cash games. As we played we upped the stakes, mostly now I play 25/50 cent live, and I profit a good deal playing live. I tried to start online a little over 2 years ago, played at pokerstars.

Four and half years ago you were at most 16. Is it legal to gamble at the age of 16 in Maryland?

#**157** 19-03-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oakie

Ive just had a read through all responses so far, and its nice to see a wide range of responses (well about 80/20 in favour of this being theft/stealing/corruption of the USA government).

I think i have this right so ive made a flow chart of this thread as a summary:

Help i have two accounts > silly kid dont help him > this is theft > major fraud > his parents must be so messed up > legal ages > addictions.
(with a side order of personal "i can out debate you")

Id just like to respond to a few points i have read:
1. defrauding other CC members: I dont agree with this because im a member of CC and pokerstars. Its not as if i had 2 accounts in the same tournament i played as me, my brain. I think the only possible arguments here are that you may have notes on my style, but i only play hubble tournaments so its unlikley you have ever played me.
2. Defrauding pokerstars: Well, in the beginning, yes. Around six months before my 18th i set up the orignal account. Now however im 18 so if i wanted to set up an account in my own name i could. Im not playing underage now as i wasnt when in the CC tournament. It didnt really bother me as i wasnt planning to deposit, i just wanted to play poker as a hobby just as i like playing football (soccer) or rugby. Does this make me an addict? If i was i could have put money in long ago (yes i have credit cards).
3. The argument i changed the RNG so others got different cards: Again relating to point 2. Im 18 now so legally i can play, just again the account holders name is different. I consulted Stephen Hawking and he assures me i didnt change the space/time contineum. I dont know if you saw the phil ivey interview last week? he said he would of won but at the last minute an extra person entered the tournament so he got dealt different cards and lost. Sounds like a Phil helmuth statement to me.
4. My parents are at fault: Sorry this does bother me, it sounds like im from a broken background dealing drugs on a council estate. Im sure this point came from our USA counterparts who in some areas at are a little backwards (Amish town is it- not sure) at times. Where do you think my mum (yes mum not mom) would rather have me be? Out on the streets or inside playing a stratgy game for fun. I have never been in trouble, in fact i have never even spoken to a police officer in an official capacity.
5. Crimes/feloneys: i cant even believe this has to be responded to. Pokerstars is worth $30billion approx. according to a new times article. I now work as an auditor so i can tell you that every company has a materialitly level of which amounts under this are not even worth bothering about. Pokerstars will be easily in the millions. This line of argument makes it sound like in going to be extradited to stand before a supreme court.
6. General: Seems like there some egos in this thread. Zac at first i though you were a holier-than-thou figure. A few of you posts have been informative and have great points, i cant work out if you just love arguing for the sake of it. Having been through the thread i think im of the opinion that my thoughts are different from yours so its cool that we can have a debate of a forum, the perpose its intended. Lets not get into telling people they are wrong (thats not aimed at you zac just people in general because there been a couple of posts hinting this to each other).

thanks for reading, i await your responses.

okay, this is all wonderful but don't you think it's a teensy bit sad that you deceived pokerstars for the sake of something like 5 cents in equity per week or however often these freerolls are?

basically the OP reads like "i've already deceived pokerstars - now help me deceive them even more!". did you really expect everyone on this forum of (largely) honest online poker players to be supportive of your idea and be happy to help you out?

personally i think i'd find it super hilarious if they kept your money after you deliberately misled them for the sake of a few cents of value. nothing personal, but karma is fun!

edit: i also think that it's hilarious that 'pokerchris' has apparently taken the time to trawl through zach's post history in a desperate attempt to dig up some dirt, lolz.

#**158** 19-03-2008, 11:14 PM

[ ] Pokerchris has awsome life ldo

#**159** 19-03-2008, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

From Poker Forum > General Discussion > Introductions posted on 16-09-2007, 12:41 AM

Four and half years ago you were at most 16. Is it legal to gamble at the age of 16 in Maryland?

He may have been in his own home with his parent's/friend's parent's consent. However, being 20 and playing online @ PS for 2 years put him @ 18 which is the legal age. So, everything looks legit so far.

#**160** 20-03-2008, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_Kahne_Fan

He may have been in his own home with his parent's/friend's parent's consent. However, being 20 and playing online @ PS for 2 years put him @ 18 which is the legal age. So, everything looks legit so far.

^^^^^this....

#**161** 20-03-2008, 1:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

From Poker Forum > General Discussion > Introductions posted on 16-09-2007, 12:41 AM

Four and half years ago you were at most 16. Is it legal to gamble at the age of 16 in Maryland?

Yes.

#**162** 20-03-2008, 1:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

Yes.

The minimum gambling age is 21 in Maryland.

#**163** 20-03-2008, 1:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_Kahne_Fan

He may have been in his own home with his parent's/friend's parent's consent. However, being 20 and playing online @ PS for 2 years put him @ 18 which is the legal age. So, everything looks legit so far.

From Zach's Poker Blog:
About Me

Zach
Cleveland, OH, United States
I'm an 18 year old college Freshman at Case Western Reserve University. I play baseball on the varsity team there and play poker live there, live at home in Maryland, and online

That makes him 16 when he started playing online @ PS.

#**164** 20-03-2008, 2:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

The minimum gambling age is 21 in Maryland.

Really, gonna support that? I know there was a statement from our county police force that as long as no rake was taken home poker games were completely legal. 21 may be in casinos, but as I haven't played in a casino yet...

#**165** 20-03-2008, 2:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

From Zach's Poker Blog:
About Me

Zach
Cleveland, OH, United States
I'm an 18 year old college Freshman at Case Western Reserve University. I play baseball on the varsity team there and play poker live there, live at home in Maryland, and online

That makes him 16 when he started playing online @ PS.

lol, I've also got my age in the CC profile, wondering when you were gonna stumble upon that, but this worked out better, more readers of my blog.

Just curious, but what's the point of all this?

#**166** 20-03-2008, 2:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

lol, I've also got my age in the CC profile, wondering when you were gonna stumble upon that, but this worked out better, more readers of my blog.

Just curious, but what's the point of all this?

If you started playing poker online @ PS at 16, how many rules of PS have you broken?
Is that considered to be:

1) Cheating
2) Stealing
3) Fraud

#**167** 20-03-2008, 2:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

If you started playing poker online @ PS at 16, how many rules of PS have you broken?
Is that considered to be:

1) Cheating
2) Stealing
3) Fraud

Can you show me where playing online @ PS at 16 is illegal? I can show you where playing for real money online at PS at 16 is illegal, but please show me where it's illegal to play at pokerstars (not just .com, this includes .net) at 16.

#**168** 20-03-2008, 3:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

Can you show me where playing online @ PS at 16 is illegal? I can show you where playing for real money online at PS at 16 is illegal, but please show me where it's illegal to play at pokerstars (not just .com, this includes .net) at 16.

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GRANT OF LICENSE/INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY

1.2. The Software is licensed to you by PokerStars for your private personal use. Please note that the Software is not for use by (i) individuals under 18 years of age, (ii) individuals under the legal age of majority in their jurisdiction and (iii) individuals connecting to the Site from jurisdictions from which it is illegal to do so. PokerStars is not able to verify the legality of the Service in each jurisdiction and it is the User's responsibility to verify such matter.

#**169** 20-03-2008, 4:51 AM

Is this .net or .com?

#**170** 20-03-2008, 7:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

Is this .net or .com?

From pokerstars.com:
1.2. The Software is licensed to you by PokerStars for your private personal use. Please note that the Software is not for use by (i) individuals under 18 years of age, (ii) individuals under the legal age of majority in their jurisdiction and (iii) individuals connecting to the Site from jurisdictions from which it is illegal to do so. PokerStars is not able to verify the legality of the Service in each jurisdiction and it is the User's responsibility to verify such matter.

From pokerstars.net:
1.2. The Software is licensed to you by PokerStars for your private personal use. Please note that the Software is not for use by (i) individuals under 18 years of age, (ii) individuals under the legal age of majority in their jurisdiction and (iii) individuals connecting to the Site from jurisdictions from which it is illegal to do so. PokerStars is not able to verify the legality of the Service in each jurisdiction and it is the User's responsibility to verify such matter.

From pokerstars.net:

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Attempt to play when they’re underage, or
Allow poker to control them and affect their lives.

The people of PokerStars are committed to assisting and protecting those who should not be playing poker at all, or who wish to limit the amount that they play.
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