Help needed- got 2 accounts on PokerStars and want to cash out- can i?

#36 17-03-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momoney2

You cheated and began playing on-line poker when you were underage on your mom's account.
You cheated and set up a fictious second account with false information.
You cheated and entered freeroll tournaments that you had NO right in entering as they were NOT for the country in which you live. NOR could you claim that you were a US-citizen living abroad.

Cheating means that someone takes an unfair advantage. He didn’t take any unfair advantage here.

#37 18-03-2008, 12:22 AM

well it looks like i have created somewhat of a debate here with this thread. Most of you feel i should burn in hell for my horrific crimes, some others had some good input.

well in a week im at $800 (from nothing, i won $28 in a freeroll). So im going to cash out $500 so we will soon see if i get the money or not. For those of you who seem to think im a decendant of hitler im putting it towards my car insurance which will be almost £1500 (and im the bad guy?). It wont go towards funding terrorist activities as you seem to expect me to.

I just like playing poker, im not good enough/confident enough to deposit yet so i play in freerolls with a hope to make a bankroll and try the chris ferguson rules.

To everyone who has slated me, why? do you feel big? do you feel superior? i asked for help, it does say in the original question. If you dont agree thats fine, it wasnt a good idea which was why i asked a question in the first place. I see the forum as a place where we share wins, losses and problems, to get support from each other.

Thank you for reading, my virtual friends

#38 18-03-2008, 12:30 AM

Come on guys, the kid made a mistake, and I think he has learned from it. Please stop flaming him, and just help him out

#39 18-03-2008, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oakie

well it looks like i have created somewhat of a debate here with this thread. Most of you feel i should burn in hell for my horrific crimes, some others had some good input.

well in a week im at $800 (from nothing, i won $28 in a freeroll). So im going to cash out $500 so we will soon see if i get the money or not. For those of you who seem to think im a decendant of hitler im putting it towards my car insurance which will be almost £1500 (and im the bad guy?). It wont go towards funding terrorist activities as you seem to expect me to.

I just like playing poker, im not good enough/confident enough to deposit yet so i play in freerolls with a hope to make a bankroll and try the chris ferguson rules.

To everyone who has slated me, why? do you feel big? do you feel superior? i asked for help, it does say in the original question. If you dont agree thats fine, it wasnt a good idea which was why i asked a question in the first place. I see the forum as a place where we share wins, losses and problems, to get support from each other.

Thank you for reading, my virtual friends

no one said u were anything like hitler etc, u saying that makes me think ur an idiot
all we are saying is that u broke the T&C and because of tha u should pay the consequences, its nothing of us not liking u, if it had happened to me i would hope for ppl to say to me what they said to u {except telling u how to get the money out} what would society be if it didnt have rules?how would it be if u didnt follow those rules?society would crumble
there was a rule in place and u didnt follow it, i dont wont to see u lose out but in a situation like this, u should

further note, can this be locked, it puts a bad taste in some people's mouths

#40 18-03-2008, 12:54 AM

It's stealing, plain and simple. A super-user account is taking it away from others using poker cheats, changing details to seem like you're from other countries is stealing from those who the money should have rightfully gone to.

#41 18-03-2008, 1:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

It's stealing, plain and simple. A super-user account is taking it away from others using poker cheats, changing details to seem like you're from other countries is stealing from those who the money should have rightfully gone to.

Almost all poker players are thieves by natural, they steal blinds and they steal others chips by bluffing. There is the saying “Don’t believe what a poker player tells you”.

#42 18-03-2008, 1:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

Almost all poker players are thieves by natural, they steal blinds and they steal others chips by bluffing. There is the saying “Don’t believe what a poker tells you”.

Umm, stealing blinds is a term which is a legal move in poker. Stealing money is illegal, he played in a freeroll he had no right to enter and won money that should have been someone else's. That's illegal, no matter which way you put it.

#43 18-03-2008, 1:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

There is the saying “Don’t believe what a poker tells you”.

I would probably never believe what a poker tells me - but then, I've never known a poker that could talk!

#44 18-03-2008, 1:47 AM

Heres a fresh idea.

Assuming OP has turned legal age, and wants to play at stars.

Contact pokerstars and offer to donate money to the charity of their choice, if they help you straighten things out, and leave you with say $25 (perhaps even with a new account bonus). The donation is in your name though. So it could be a write-off.

Come clean young man. Life is complicated enough without having to bookkeep your lies.

#45 18-03-2008, 1:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

Umm, stealing blinds is a term which is a legal move in poker. Stealing money is illegal, he played in a freeroll he had no right to enter and won money that should have been someone else's. That's illegal, no matter which way you put it.

He won the money by playing not just by entering. If PokerStars thinks he was stealing other’s money he would be banned right away.

#46 18-03-2008, 1:57 AM

Yeah... I read through this and feel dirty or something now.

Can we lock it?

OP's response a few posts up didn't really help his image here. Man up and admit you screwed up, broke rules and laws and are looking for a way to cheat the system. You get called on it and are acting like those calling you are a bunch of holier-than-thous.. they aren't. Noone has called you hitler and I couldn't care less what you are using the money for.

Somebody (JQ?) made a great point... Underage people like you doing things like this are giving the anti-poker community in the US particularly more ammunition and they really don't need it.

Simple black and white facts: You broke the rules and now don't want to get penalized for doing so. Man up and admit it.

FWIW I think the best advice is to call pokerstars and come clean... because 1) it's the right thing to do and 2) it's quite possibly the best chance you have at actually seeing any of your cash ever.

#47 18-03-2008, 2:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

He won the money by playing not just by entering. If PokerStars thinks he was stealing other’s money he would be banned right away.

Playing in a game he could not legally enter. If for example a man enters the WSOP female event and is exposed, would they still give them the prize he won? And this is a buy-in tournament, the point of the freeroll is to attract people from a certain country, and he's denying a spot as well as taking money to those from that country who would have won it instead. This not only hurts the potential member(s) that would have gotten his money but also hurts pokerstars because it doesn't get the extra business, which is rake. They made rules and the OP broke them, illegally enterring a freeroll event specifically for other people, the OP not part of that group.

#48 18-03-2008, 3:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

Playing in a game he could not legally enter. If for example a man enters the WSOP female event and is exposed, would they still give them the prize he won? And this is a buy-in tournament, the point of the freeroll is to attract people from a certain country, and he's denying a spot as well as taking money to those from that country who would have won it instead. This not only hurts the potential member(s) that would have gotten his money but also hurts pokerstars because it doesn't get the extra business, which is rake. They made rules and the OP broke them, illegally enterring a freeroll event specifically for other people, the OP not part of that group.

We are talking about if it's stealing other's money or not. Not if it would hurt PokerStars marketing strategy. By the way, I can’t even change the country in my PS account personal info. If PS let him change his country in his personal info, don’t blame players who change it.

#49 18-03-2008, 3:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

If for example a man enters the WSOP female event and is exposed, would they still give them the prize he won? And this is a buy-in tournament,

Phil Gordon and some his friends actually played in at least one women's poker buy-in tournament. If it's stealing other's money, he and his friends would have been in jail.

#50 18-03-2008, 3:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

We are talking about if it's stealing other's money or not. Not if it would hurt PokerStars marketing strategy. By the way, I can’t even change the country in my PS account personal info. If PS let him change his country in his personal info, don’t blame players who change it.

Umm, people can move. They make it possible, but not legal. By changing the info he is effectively saying that he lives in that country. That is fraud and a felony IIRC. And it's not whether it would hurt the pokerstars marketing strategy, it's if he's breaking rules he promised to follow and taking money away from pokerstars and other members who actually follow the rules.

#51 18-03-2008, 3:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

Phil Gordon and some his friends actually played in at least one women's poker buy-in tournament. If it's stealing other's money, he and his friends would have been in jail.

Was this known before-hand? If they lied about it they could be charged with fraud. I don't know the details, but just because someone does something illegal and doesn't end up in jail doesn't make it right. Again, if I steal the candy from the store when no one's looking, does that make it right since I don't get punished for it?

#52 18-03-2008, 3:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

Was this known before-hand? If they lied about it they could be charged with fraud. I don't know the details, but just because someone does something illegal and doesn't end up in jail doesn't make it right. Again, if I steal the candy from the store when no one's looking, does that make it right since I don't get punished for it?

Again, we are not talking about right or wrong. We are talking about if it's stealing other's money.

#53 18-03-2008, 4:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

Again, we are not talking about right or wrong. We are talking about if it's stealing other's money.

ok let me break it down real simple. The money should be someone else's and they should be spending it at Stars, possibly enticing them to deposit and get Stars more rake. So by doing this you are denying money to both this person and potentially Pokerstars. So by doing something you agree is wrong (illegal), the money changes hands from Stars and another legal player to yours. How is that not stealing? Through illegal means, you acquire money that had you not done anything illegal, would have been someone else's. Sounds like stealing to me.

#54 18-03-2008, 4:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

Umm, people can move. They make it possible, but not legal. By changing the info he is effectively saying that he lives in that country. That is fraud and a felony IIRC. And it's not whether it would hurt the pokerstars marketing strategy, it's if he's breaking rules he promised to follow and taking money away from pokerstars and other members who actually follow the rules.

Many people don't want to give real personal info in any sites. Do they commit fraud and a felony?

#55 18-03-2008, 4:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

Many people don't want to give real personal info in any sites. Do they commit fraud and a felony?

Not sure about felony, but it sure is fraud. You sign an agreement with them. You don't have to give personal info, but they don't have to let you play. If you want to play you have to give them the personal info. It's that simple. People who lie and click I agree to the terms are committing fraud.

#56 18-03-2008, 4:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

ok let me break it down real simple. The money should be someone else's and they should be spending it at Stars, possibly enticing them to deposit and get Stars more rake. So by doing this you are denying money to both this person and potentially Pokerstars. So by doing something you agree is wrong (illegal), the money changes hands from Stars and another legal player to yours. How is that not stealing? Through illegal means, you acquire money that had you not done anything illegal, would have been someone else's. Sounds like stealing to me.

Wrong and illegal are two completely different things don't get confused. There are many things that are legal but wrong. Just give us the name of player who was stole from. If you can't your case will be dismissed.

#57 18-03-2008, 4:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

Not sure about felony, but it sure is fraud. You sign an agreement with them. You don't have to give personal info, but they don't have to let you play. If you want to play you have to give them the personal info. It's that simple. People who lie and click I agree to the terms are committing fraud.

I don't think you read PokerStars terms. They never say you have to give real personal info.

#58 18-03-2008, 4:22 AM

Fraud is illegal. When installing the software the OP aggreed to this: "A User may only have one account with PokerStars and shall only use the Service using such single account." - Poker Stars - Online Poker Site Terms of Service (5.2)

By agreeing to this and breaking this agreement the OP committed fraud. This is illegal, not just wrong. How much clearer can I make this? btw I'm done with this. The OP realizes it's wrong and illegal, if they want to break the law that's fine, that's none of my business. I've said what I would do and that's that.

#59 18-03-2008, 4:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

I don't think you read PokerStars terms. They never say you have to give real personal info.

umm, yes they do:

"4.3. You agree that you are required to provide us with certain personal details about yourself (including details regarding your methods of payment) for the purpose of using the Service. Our control of the information provided by you shall be subject to our Privacy Policy."

#60 18-03-2008, 4:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

umm, yes they do:

"4.3. You agree that you are required to provide us with certain personal details about yourself (including details regarding your methods of payment) for the purpose of using the Service. Our control of the information provided by you shall be subject to our Privacy Policy."

"certain personal detail" does not mean all and real. For those who don't play for real money, what's the reason to give real personal info for? FT poker was asking to give complete real personal info when sign up before and has since changed its policy.

#61 18-03-2008, 4:33 AM

If nothing else, this thread has identified some of the real idiots on this site. Time to do some house cleaning, starting with the OP.

#62 18-03-2008, 5:56 PM

Ill sum up everything in 2 quick points

1. OP cheated to technically steal from the pokersite, then use that money to beat other players for their money

2. OP gets everything he deserves for stealing money and breaking the law for gambling illegally and breaking a load of terms and policies

#63 18-03-2008, 6:09 PM

For those of you that think the OP didn't "cheat", here's an idea - he stated that he placed 2nd in a CC freeroll winning $28. Since he was playing under false pretenses, he effectively "cheated" CC'ers out of that prize money. How would you feel if you were the 'bubble' and missed out on prize $ b/c of someone who was not supposed to play in the 1st place?

Try entering a real $ tourney and losing out to illegal players and I'm sure you will feel differently.Especially if you are at the final table HU and it means the difference of winning 200$ vs 100$.

#64 18-03-2008, 6:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

"certain personal detail" does not mean all and real. For those who don't play for real money, what's the reason to give real personal info for? FT poker was asking to give complete real personal info when sign up before and has since changed its policy.

sigh, read the privacy policy:

As part of the PokerStars Account Opening process, we will ask you to provide us with certain personal information, including a name, postal address, e-mail address and password as well as to certify that you are at least 18 years old or older in jurisdictions in which the minimum age for use of the PokerStars services is greater than 18.

Giving personal information implies truthful personal information. If the cops ask you where you were the night of April 22nd, if you lie can you claim "they never told me to tell the truth about where I was".

#65 18-03-2008, 7:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

Giving personal information implies truthful personal information. If the cops ask you where you were the night of April 22nd, if you lie can you claim "they never told me to tell the truth about where I was".

^^ lol, best analagy ever, <3 zach

#66 18-03-2008, 7:33 PM

Jesus Christ I cant believe how many people are being so hard on OP because he is underage. Playing in country freerolls when your not from that country is cheating.

I'm sorry but I'm betting that A LOT of people (some pretty successful) play poker online underage and others at least used to play underage (I know I did), so did Phil Ivey. I would do the same thing if I could take back time. If I enjoy playing a game, can win money at it, but the law says I cant play, then F**K the law.
Cheating is having an unfair advantage. Whilst it is against the law, being underage IS NOT CHEATING. It just isn't.

#67 18-03-2008, 7:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

Not sure about felony, but it sure is fraud. You sign an agreement with them. You don't have to give personal info, but they don't have to let you play. If you want to play you have to give them the personal info. It's that simple. People who lie and click I agree to the terms are committing fraud.

For someone to commit a fraud, he or she has to:
1)Intentionally provide false info
2)To gain something in value

Sighing up a gambling site and do not provide truth personal info to avoid identity thief is NOT fraud.

#68 18-03-2008, 7:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerchris

For someone to commit a fraud, he or she has to:
1)Intentionally provide false info
2)To gain something in value

Sighing up a gambling site and do not provide truth personal info to avoid identity thief is NOT fraud.

1. False country
2. used to enter into a tournament with free prizes (free prizes have value)

I can't believe I'm actually having this discussion.


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