VIDEO: Stick 4-tabling 25NL on Stars 7/22/08

Please D/L and critique my play. Looks good in full-screen mode on a 17-inch monitor. 48 mins., 271mb AVI.

Stick's Poker Blog: Stick's Video: 4-tabling 25NL Rings on Stars, 7/22/08

I just watched the video myself and I think I blew the AK hand 1 minute in. Too wrapped up in talking, I guess.

d/l now Stick.

d/l now will comment tomorrow night most likely

wee, can't remember the last time you posted a video, stick.

downloading now, should watch it some time tomorrow and post my comments then

Maybe I shoulda named this thread "Name too offensive- Changing it to 'Twig' ". Think I'd get more takers?

I probably won't get to watch this until tomorrow twig, I mean stick, will report back then.

DLing now.

Only got to the first few minutes last time and something came up; watching it now and will post comments.

I do remember you folding that AK though and that's WAY too tight. It's basically a mandatory squeeze.

Ok, typing this as I watch, so forgive me if I miss some stuff.

1:20 - Squeeze the AK every time there. I'd raise to about $5 there.

2:30 - KQs in BB. This should be a raise. Several limpers in LP, lots of free money just waiting to be picked up.

3:10 - 88 in BB facing CO Steal attempt. Folding is WAY too super tight. Calling and 3-betting are both perfectly acceptable.

4:45 - J7s on button with 2 limpers. If you're going to play this, you should be raising. Not really a leak, but raising here is definitely +EV

12:30 - J8 in SB, limped pot. Good fold. No reason to continue really with how ridiculously small the pot was.You're only beating a bluff really and a bluff doesnt make much sense given the action.

15:20 - T9 in SB. You were getting something ridiculous, like 5.3:1 ish on a PF call, so that's alright. You flopped a gutshot and were given 3:1 on an all-in call. 4 outs twice is like 19%, so you need 4:1. Given that AK is a part of his range, and you have the backdoor flush draw as well, calling isn't bad. I think calling or folding is perfectly fine.

15:30 - AK in EP/MP, Top LEft table. I see no reason not to C-bet this flop. It's a pretty dry board and he pretty much has to have a Q to continue. C-bet and take it down.

15:45 - AK in EP, Bottom Left table. You opened to 4x, but there was an poster in the pot. You should generally open to slightly larger in spots like these, like 6x. This is a spot where you should avoid c-betting. It's multi-way on a board that's very easy for someone to have a piece. There's a flush draw and several straight draws.

16:30 - AJ in LP, lots of limpers. Good raise and bet size.

That's it for now, I'll pick up where I left off tomorrow.

First off the video turned out weird for some reason for me. It doesn't play on wmp and plays with inverted colours on vlc player. No biggie, but you can make the video smaller as well as pretty much avoid these problems by using icemonkey's .mov compression instead of avi.

Why the $20 buyin? Shouldn't change too much of your gameplan, but for obvious and previously discussed reasons you usually want to have max buyin.

KQs shortly thereafter should also be a raise. Punish the limpers! Pop to 2-2.50 or so and take it from there.

88 at ~3:00 should be at least a call. There's debate for 3betting or just flatting, and I think it's mostly a style issue against an unknown.

58 and 58 (imagine that! ), steal unless you're given a reason not to. It'll give you a looser image (gets you paid off with your big hands) and also provides immediate profit. Steal away!

J7s limp on the button isn't terrible, but it's not great either. I will occasionally raise it with good reads on the limpers, but otherwise I think it's just a fold.

Limping KQs (~6mins) would be pretty bad. Should be raise or fold situation and generally folding is best at a full table.

You're looking too much at pot odds and less at the actual situation. Like if you're getting 5:1 on a call, that sounds great, but means absolutely nothing if you're up against a range of hands that has you sitting as a 10:1 dog.

So for example the 9T hand. You're getting 'good odds', but are up against a tiny stack which means you have next to zero implied odds, are out of position (which means playing your draws/extracting value/bluffing/etcetc will be a kajillion times harder), and...well do I really need to go on? You do have very loose players in the pot, but I could tell from your commentary you didn't really consider that as all you were paying attention to was your pot odds. Not only that but they're short stacked. Anyways, that's a fold imo.

I was going to say the flop call is bad, but after punching some hands into stove it doesn't look all that bad. But really look at the hand as a hole. You called a raise with 9To against a shortstack (admittedly with bad players in the pot too), then called his smallish push with a gutshot. Raise/fold poker is hardly ideal, but it's much better than doing what you did there imo. Again I don't think the hand was terrible, but it was just sloppy in my eyes.

AKs at ~15:40, why no c-bet? That's a pretty dry board and you can get folds from the smaller pocket pairs a lot of the time. I cbet that almost always against an unknown.

Then betting the turn...do you expect 88 for ex. to fold now? What hand are you representing? The 3s only put more draws on board which means there's a better chance of him having a draw, which means there's now a greater chance of him calling.

Then you cbet AK into 3 people on a very drawy J86 board (~16:00). I don't think cbetting there will be profitable at all - most of the time they'll call with their 99 or whatever, or they'll chase their draw, and you'll generally have to give up on the turn. Even heads-up I'm usually checking that flop unless my opponent is VERY passive.

HAH! Beat you to everything you said.

Edit : And amazingly it looks like we both stopped watching the video at the same spot. . . . wait a minute . . . am I you????

I just copied your post and put it in my own words ldo

Still watching and posting

Raising AJ with the limpers at 16:30 - YES. This is the strong play I like to see.

Fold the 82 for bottom pair. Yeah it's 'only .25', but you're a) probably behind, b) if you're not behind your opponent will have a decent chunk of outs against you (like a flush draw with overs, 89, 56, plain overs, etc), and c) you aren't just calling .25. You still have two streets to get through and aren't seeing a showdown is almost never going to cost you 'only .25'.

Limping Q7 type hands (~18:50) is generally not a great idea. You get yourself in tons of tough spots postflop, not knowing whether you should value bet top pair or go for pot control or even shut down with it. Not only that but it affects your whole mentality and game style - limping is fine in moderation, but like I said before, raising or folding are generally better options.

A4s steal is good. Exactly what you want to do in late position. You'll take that down a lot more than you'd expect. Stakes don't matter as long as you don't have absolute calling stations behind you.

re: the $20 buyin. About the comfort issue, that's fine. About losing more hands than you win...what? What does that have to do with anything? I'm not going to give you some long, drawn-out explanation about how poker is about EV, not hands won, but really, with all due respect Stick, you sound exactly like a weak-tight, scared player to me. You buy-in full if you think you're a favourite in the game (which I hope you do, otherwise why would you play?) because you expect to win the most when you sit down with a max buyin.

It's easier for you to bust for two buyins than to win two buyins? Then why are you playing?

Getting a little tipsy here and am probably being a little blunt, but I hope you prefer that to me lying to you and saying I agree with everything you say

T5 flopping trips; slowplaying the flop a little bit is fine. The board is so dry that it just makes it really unlikely your opponents have anything, so checking is fine. After your opponent raises on the turn with the flush draw on board I'm happy just repopping. You don't want to call and see the flush hit the river and realize you just gave him an easy 4:1 shot for the FD and pay him off.

On the river I just shove. He's looking you up with any queen (which he has slowplayed as if it's a monster) and any 5. You're clearly ahead of his range, and since he's never calling your check-raise (of any size) with a naked bluff, he'll basically look you up every time he has a hand regardless of your raise size, so just shove.

Stop calling minraises with often-dominated hands like Q8 and completing the SB with K8. Being blunt again, but you're not 'taking your shot', you're calling with a subpar hand that will often miss, and even when you hit it will be a marginal hand that will be hard to play. You fold 57s later in a minraised pot - a hand I'm much more likely to call with based on it's potential to make a big hand and the likelyhood you'll get paid off.

KJ (32:55) isn't really a multiway hand. Limping isn't terrible there, but again I'd much prefer a raise on the button.

Why are you checking AJ on the 863r flop after raising pf? Not just being rhetorical here, I'm curious what your reasoning is. You didn't really give a reason in the video, you just said 'check'.

This is a flop that is dry enough that we basically have to bet it. Again you check behind and then bet the turn which is a really weird line and doesn't represent anything credible.

As played I shove the river. He'll have plenty of 77/TT/TJ/9T/8x/6x/etc hands to pay you off with.

66 hand was played fine if you ask me.

Excellent stuff, guys. I really appreiciate it. I agree with everything you both said, so I'll just answer or ask some things:
Really, you guys? I thought it was a set-mining situation and I had to call .75 into a 1.35 pot, which was less than 2-1. I didn't think I had the right odds to call to mine there (plus I was gonna be OOP after the flop). I usually call at 3-1, but what conditions do you guys like to setmine? Explain this concept further for me (and others), please.
The Q scared me there, guys. My luck at C-betting with paint on board hasn't been too good lately. Maybe I'm gunshy. Explain why betting at that Queen would be OK.

Yeah. I used a codec that came with my new computer that puts out the best quality with the least file size. Then it dawned on me that it might not turn out for some folks, but the video was done already.

I use CamStudio for free and it doesn't do .mov's. Just AVI's & SWF's. Do you know of anything else that's free (not trial) that does .mov's?

You are 100% right. I think that is a byproduct of multi-tabling for me. I'll have a question relating to this below.Yeah. I kinda realized how stupid that all sounded after I watched the video myself. If I get afraid of risking so much at a time multi-tabling, I should just play less tables but buy-in full at each.

*******
OK. Two overall questions for you guys and it's OK to be blunt. Now judging by this video:

1) Do you think I'm cut out for multi-tabling in general? How about more tables like 5, 6, or 8? I ask because you see how "read-ish" I am, but maybe not in the right way since I seem to pay more attention to pot odds than anything.

2) I'm coming up on having $1000 in my Stars account and I'd like to move up in stakes. Do you think I'm ready for 50NL?

Thanks again guys.
********

OTHER FOLKS: Keep the critiques coming!

Implied value mostly. You were being asked to call .75 to (potentially) win his whole stack. Couple that with the actual value 88 holds vs. his range and it should be an easy call. Very easy to float him on like J73r boards and get to showdown if he gives up.


Because of how dry the board was. You basically fold out his entire range that doesnt contain a Q, most importantly small pairs. It just has to do with how much of his range he can continue with vs. how much he folds. Since you're turning your hand in to a bluff at this point (don't worry, this is a good spot to turn a hand with some decent showdown value in to a bluff) you're looking for all the fold equity you can get. And your fold equity is greatest by leading the flop.

I'd stick with 4 tables for a while. Keep grinding until more decisions become automatic. It seemed like you were thinking a bit too much about decisions that should be fairly routine.

If you're having comfort issues at 25NL, I'd probably say no. Nothing wrong with being a bankroll nit, such as myself. I know for a fact that if I used a 20BI bankroll that I wouldnt play near as good as I'm capable of. Skill wise you probably are, cause if you can beat 25NL, you should be able to beat 50NL. 50NL isnt that much tougher.

Oh, and I watched the rest of the video, I just didnt have anything to add on top of what Chuck said.

What video compression are you using? I suggest x264 keeps pure avi quality video with a very small filesize.

But DLing will comment.