$50 NLHE Full Ring: 67suuuuited on the Btn Pre ????

$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Holdem (9 players)
SB: $52.25
BB: $70.59
UTG: $50 (sitting out)
UTG+1: $21.38
MP: $51.44
MP+1: $50 VPIP 15% PFR 11% AGG 1.4 HANDS 1,800
MP+2: $59.07
CO: $98.31
BTN Hero: $51.83

Pre-flop: ($0.75) Hero is BTN and dealt
2 folds, MP+1 raises to $1.50, 2 folds,

Hero Is this a good hand to .(Note: Doesn't look like he folds to 3bet often)

A) Fold pre .

B) Flat pos pre.

C) 3Bet pos pre.

D) other pre .epsi:

Here is More stats if needed.

fold

Fold, 67s plays a lot better when mp is opening a wide range but he isn't

Fold, although the thought of doing D) other pre intrigues me. Mostly because I can't figure out what it would entail!

Call

hackmeplz said:

Call

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Give some good reasons to call other than 67s being pretty?

WVHillbilly said:

Fold, although the thought of doing D) other pre intrigues me. Mostly because I can't figure out what it would entail!

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shove

Tyler69 said:

shove

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Still just a 3bet.

acky100 said:

Give some good reasons to call other than 67s being pretty?

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We have a hand that will flop decent equity a good amount of the time, and given that his range is very strong preflop it is likely he will have a one pair hand a lot of the time postflop. We have the perfect hand to balance our sets postflop by bluff raising a lot of flops and we should get a ton of credit. It is going to be easy to play and we can set up a lot of spots where villain's entire range will turn into bluff-catchers.

We have position, a hand that flops very well, and aren't flatting enough such that villain can assume we have a weak hand. Our overall range in these spots will still be very strong and we can use that to make 67s a profitable hand to play in this situation. I'd rather have 67s than say AJo here.

I agree that id rather have 67s than AJo but a couple of things seem contradictory in your argument for flatting.

Villain is real tight only opening like 11% from MP, we could bluff raise a lot of flops yeah but villain is gonna hit flops a ton better than us with his whole range and is not gonna have a hard time bluff catching compared to a guy who for example opens 20% in the same spot, the 20% guy will miss a ton more and i'd happily call against someone who is opening more in MP to do what you suggest - stealing pots postflop.

Against a tight guy we arent trying to steal pots as much, we're just gonna flop a lot of weak hands and draws where we cant really play them aggressively because we lack what looser opening guys give us (fold equity)

Another reason i wouldn't call here is because the guy c-bets quite a lot and he also double barrels a lot, you might think this is good because he cant have a hand a lot so we can bluff raise but he's probably c-betting a lot on both streets just because his range is so strong. I'd like calling if the guy opened 20% in MP and cbet flop and turn a lot so we can call ip and raise turns or something.

Fold. His f3bet is really low

3betting this is terrible anyways, you crazy?

He doesn't fold to 3-bets often because his opening range is super strong.

Only call if there are fish in the blinds, otherwise fold pre.

John A said:

He doesn't fold to 3-bets often because his opening range is super strong.

Only call if there are fish in the blinds, otherwise fold pre.

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This makes good sense Thanks

What Acky said really sums it up well. In general we never want to play suited connectors HU vs. a strong range. If CO is opening a wide range and will give up after firing the flop, we can call and use our equity to get him off his weakish range.

But if we're up against a strong range we're going to have to make a big hand and that's just not gonna happen often enough; instead we'll generally end up paying off one or two bets when we flop some draw that we can't play aggressively.

acky100 said:

3betting this is terrible anyways, you crazy?

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I don't understand. I could totally see 3bet bluffing this player of he had a high f3bet being ok.

bgomez89 said:

I don't understand. I could totally see 3bet bluffing this player of he had a high f3bet being ok.

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Just cause we don't need to do something every hand, folding is fine. Theres lots of better hands to 3bet bluff a guy in this spot. AJo, KJo, ATo, Ax suited Kx suited, just hands that have better equity than 67s that we cant call with pre and have blockers to his continuing range, this way we actually get a higher success % on our bluffs and if we are called we're not gonna get dominated by better flushes or get ourselves committed with weak draws/pairs that we again cant play aggressively because his range will be so strong.

You just said 3betting this is terrible. I said its not terrible if he had a high f3bet(which he doesn't). Did you just mean it was terrible against this guy or against anyone?

as acky noted you will have better hands to bluff with.

John A said:

He doesn't fold to 3-bets often because his opening range is super strong.

Only call if there are fish in the blinds, otherwise fold pre.

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What he said.

bgomez89 said:

You just said 3betting this is terrible. I said its not terrible if he had a high f3bet(which he doesn't). Did you just mean it was terrible against this guy or against anyone?

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I just think there is no need to 3bet this type of hand against this guy even if his f3b is high. I mean yeah its probably +EV but it's less +EV that A6s or AJo so unless we're gonna 3bet this guy every time we have a chance (probably not our strategy?) then our overall 3bet bluffing strategy against him will be less +EV than if we just did it with the best hands we could.

Say we're gonna 3bet bluff him say 10% of the time he opens... If we 3bet these hands 5% and the hands i suggest 5% we're losing money compared to if we just did 10% of the time with the better hands, even though both plays might be +EV.

There could be times where for game flow/table dynamics/player dynamics that you just really want to 3bet bluff and then yeah go ahead use ATC if you want to make a play and dont want to wait for the best hand to do it with, which is fine under them conditions. Kind of like you're playing heads up and have folded the last 3 buttons cause you got trashy hands, you get 72o the 4th time you should probably just open it anyways because of game flow.

/semi drunken rant again sorry

Acky's comments here are really impressive IMO. I remember reading something that a good player once said about stopping and thinking about what he was doing and then deciding that, while bluffing with a certain hand might be slightly +EV, he'd have better hands in his range to bluff with. This goes for postflop as well as pre, btw.

We want to be exploiting people but not to the point where they know they're being exploited.

Versus someone this tight I think the best play is to avoid and steal their blind relentlessly, also when they are on the button and you are in the cutoff, treat it as if you are on the button!

so A is the best. I agree it is tempting to 3bet but not this guy, he is making mistakes that you can exploit by playing rather straightforward and occassionally making extremely aggressive postflop multibarrel bluffs on scary boards (since he doesnt have low straights, flushes, or two pair often on specific board textures)

He's going to have 1p a lot, we have a hand we can make him fold 1p a lot, I still don't get why everyone wants to fold. So many nits