$4 NLHE 6-max: QQ strange line gets squeezed

JOEBOB69

JOEBOB69

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Ok villains folds to 3bet 100%.I normally would still 3bet here but vs this player and my position i think a flat is more+EV is this thinking right?
Merge, $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $4.19 (104.8 bb) 17\12\1.3 squeeze 25%(210hands)
BB: $4 (100 bb)
MP: $4.65 (116.3 bb)
CO: $4 (100 bb) 19\16\2.7 folds 3bet 100%(360 hands)
Hero (BTN): $4 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with Q
spade4.gif
Q
diamond4.gif

MP folds, CO raises to $0.12, Hero calls $0.12, SB raises to $0.60, BB folds, CO calls $0.48 HERO?


Is this a auto ship?I'm assuming SB and CO have blockers for each others hands.I'm also assuming if i ship CO's $ is dead in the pot.But since SB's squeeze is so high an i belive they have blockers should i flat an let SB stack off on the flop?I'm not certain that i get called by worse if i ship pre(but there is already 34bb in the pot).Thoughts.
 
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Jurn8

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flat

reshipping will only get called by better and fold out mid pairs CO is flatting plus SB's squeezing range.
 
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baudib1

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I'd stick it in. This is pretty much a dream scenario for when we flat JJ+/AK. Your line looks so FOS when you backraise you'll get snapped off pretty light. (your perceived range is capped at like 99-TTish, AQ) Plus, don't forget, CO folds 100% to 3-bets so he must like his hand.

Flatting to CO is fine, just don't be that guy who 3-bets 10x as much from the SB as the BTN.

P.S. start 3-betting the crap out of CO with trash.
 
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Pascal-lf

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I ship, 3 way 3bet pot with QQ even in position sounds nasty, your line looks weak - like KJ, mid pockets, etc, so SB can look you up light, and there's a ton of dead money in the middle
 
Jurn8

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what are you hoping to get called by reshipping?

we are flipping at best if called
 
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baudib1

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wat. we have QQ not 22. Even if his range is QQ+/AK we can stack off pretty comfortably.

plus this
Your line looks so FOS when you backraise you'll get snapped off pretty light. (your perceived range is capped at like 99-TTish, AQ)
your line looks weak - like KJ, mid pockets, etc, so SB can look you up light
 
Jurn8

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wat. we have QQ not 22. Even if his range is QQ+/AK we can stack off pretty comfortably.

plus this

we are reshipping over a 1.3% squeeze from a nit and a back call by a TAG

what is his calling range when we reship then?
 
Pascal-lf

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he's got a 25% squeeze and 1.3 aggro mate, i made same mistake when i first read stats

tag is rarely strong here imo, he's got lots of pretty hands he wants to see flops with (JTs, KJo, etc) and pairs he doesn't know how to play (77-JJ)
 
Jurn8

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he's got a 25% squeeze and 1.3 aggro mate, i made same mistake when i first read stats

tag is rarely strong here imo, he's got lots of pretty hands he wants to see flops with (JTs, KJo, etc) and pairs he doesn't know how to play (77-JJ)

im so good at reading.......

i still prefer a flat vs his squeezing range and I agree tag has mid pairs AJo etc here mostly
 
vanquish

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flatting here seems like it could get you in a lot of trouble
 
Jurn8

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yeah i think im overthinking this, just ****ing ship it its 4nl
 
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baudib1

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This is a really great hand because of the highly unusual dynamics going on.

You have a TAG in CO who folds to 3-bets an exploitably high amount. As an adjustment, we're flatting QQ on the BTN. SB is squeezy and likely has the same read as you on CO. So you have someone who folds too much and call on the button; we print money by 3-betting ATC.

I don't hate flatting and I don't mind seeing a flop 3 ways but there are a lot of things to consider:

The pot is very large and we run the risk of getting bluffed off our hand is very high. Having position in this spot is actually not that advantageous because of the SPRs. I realize this is 4NL but the SB likes to attack dead money by his squeeze stats. Since we (as in us and CO) should reshove our best high-card hands like AK/AQ he can profitably bluff A-high/K-high boards because it's tough for us to have much there. Also there are plenty of times when he'll have K4ss and shove on a ATxss flop and we fold.

Also, it's not quite to the level of "my tournament life" or "flipping at best" but the phrase "what worse calls?" annoys me. I'm all for manipulating calling ranges but this is absurd on its face because we have Q freaking Q. Not only do we have QQ, we are probably way above our perceived hand strength so villains can and should snap with much worse. If you're not willing to attack huge pots with worse hands than QQ in spots this profitable you are going to have a tough time playing 6-max.

As noted we have odds to get it in even if his range is only QQ+/AK.

Finally, when we have the right equity and the pot's huge I'd rather just realize my equity and let the other guy figure out how he wants to give me money.
 
Jurn8

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yeah disregard my thoughts as i misread the stats
 
Stu_Ungar

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Whats the SB 3bet stat?

I dont think many players below 50-100NL squeeze all that much and even when they do its with a stronger range than many believe.

SB is 17/12 in a 6 max game: thats not very aggressive is it.

His overall AF is 1.3 : again that's not a sign of an aggressive player.

So what is his 3bet stat?

Your saying he is squeezy because of his squeeze stat, ovbiously. But a 17/12/1.3 isnt a naturally squeezy 3bet happy player.

So, just fora second forget the squeeze stat, can you show some other agrressive reads for this player?
 
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baudib1

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we have an underrepped QQ, $3.88 and a pot of $1.36.

opener folds to 3-bets too much and we flatted

it doesn't matter if he's aggressive or not.
 
Stu_Ungar

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we have an underrepped QQ, $3.88 and a pot of $1.36.

opener folds to 3-bets too much and we flatted

it doesn't matter if he's aggressive or not.
It kind of does.

You want to 4bet and get shoved on by worse. You dont want to 4bet and have him fold down to a range you flip with do you?
 
JOEBOB69

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Whats the SB 3bet stat?

I dont think many players below 50-100NL squeeze all that much and even when they do its with a stronger range than many believe.

SB is 17/12 in a 6 max game: thats not very aggressive is it.

His overall AF is 1.3 : again that's not a sign of an aggressive player.

So what is his 3bet stat?over all 7% --button 8%--sb 5%---bb 10%

Your saying he is squeezy because of his squeeze stat, ovbiously. But a 17/12/1.3 isnt a naturally squeezy 3bet happy player.

So, just fora second forget the squeeze stat, can you show some other agrressive reads for this player?

I don't really know what other stats you want stu?His steal is 27%
17/12 is not argo at all for 6max It's nitty imo.It is the idea play for him to squeeze with AT though if he is at all aware which seems he is.
 
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baudib1

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It kind of does.

You want to 4bet and get shoved on by worse. You dont want to 4bet and have him fold down to a range you flip with do you?

Getting it in vs. KK+/AK is fine here. OP made an astute observation in that CO has blockers to SB's nut range.

Also, we will get called wide for reasons already stated in this thread at least three times.
 
Stu_Ungar

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OK so over all its about 7% Its not really much different OOP to IP.

Have you seen any hands that went to SD?

The question now becomes, is he polarised or depolarised?

Have you seen him flat 99 or TT? Have you seen him flat AJ/AQ?

If its depolarised then shove; he can call with worse.

If its polarised then flat; he will try and win postflop with 22 / ATo

When you raise a polarised range you basically fold him down to a range you flip with.
 
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baudib1

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If we're flipping with his calling range it's hugely profitable. We can shove even if he only has KK+/AK here.

Also he's probably calling a lot wider than that.

Also when we flat, if he's polarized we're going to get bluffed a lot.
 
Stu_Ungar

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If we're flipping with his calling range it's hugely profitable. We can shove even if he only has KK+/AK here.

Also he's probably calling a lot wider than that.

If we are flipping with his calling range then its not hugely profitable: its BREAKEVEN.

Why take a hand as strong as QQ and play it in a way thats breakeven?
 
JOEBOB69

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Note i have on him says he flat called with KK in bb,and flat called AQs in position.
 
Stu_Ungar

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We can shove even if he has KK+ AK but we should also decide if thats the most profitable way of playing. To put it another way, with a high value hand, if we couldnt profitably shove we couldnt consider a profitable call.

So being as its a profitable shove we can also look at the merits of calling
 
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baudib1

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woops I calculated wrong, but we have big overlay vs. JJ+/AK and he's surely calling wider than that.
 
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