100NL another set in position sort of wet board

MP3: $102.95 (103 bb)
CO: $145.85 (145.9 bb)
Hero (BTN): $384.05 (384.1 bb)
SB: $35.75 (35.8 bb)
BB: $166.20 (166.2 bb)
UTG+1: $228.80 (228.8 bb)
MP1: $94 (94 bb)
MP2: $149.75 (149.8 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is BTN with 9 9
UTG+1 raises to $3, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $3, 2 folds, Hero calls $3, SB calls $2.50, BB folds

Flop: ($13) 9 5 4 (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets $7, MP2 calls $7, Hero raises to $21 2 folds, MP2 raises to $50, hero? I will admit my raise really sucks but I was making a decision at another table and sort of rushed this one at last second, I think raising to 25 would be been better, anyways as played luckely the passive fish re-raises, now I have to decide do I flat, shove or small re raise? I will let you guys decide but I will say one thing, when he raises I'm almost 100% sure he does not have the flush just by the way he plays, so this is like a lower set, two pair, and maybe over pair type hands, I can see him doing this with TT and JJ. thoughts? I mean whats a better move against a passive guy like this being aggro?

This is the same table I hit a set against a passive players, this table was full of bad passive players
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cas...ed-set-position-dry-board-143270/#post1082567

the MP2 basically is just passive from what I have seen from him, just a calling station. SB is also a calling station, UTG+1 is TAGish player.

By the way I sort of just skipped the part where its up to me to raise or flat, I believe flatting is out of question, I do admit my raise sucks in 4 way pot, but perhaps with over cards I would be more inclined to make it more, so I guess after I look at it I don't really mind that much but I do think I need to make flush draws pay more.

Um... are sets hard to play or something? Last time I checked you just keep putting money in until you run out of money...

This is a very very easy hand to play against a passive player that wakes up and starts jamming the pot.

I also am 100% sure he dosnt have the flush Shovey dovey.

c9h13no3 said:

Um... are sets hard to play or something? Last time I checked you just keep putting money in until you run out of money...

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I'm asking for serious responses as to whats best way to get the money not the smart azz response that I already know thats our goal

Well if he doesn't have the flush draw, and you put him on overpairs or better, then he's never folding. So clearly we get our money in before we get an action killer or actually get outdrawn. Shove.

Stop the personal crap please.

Oh great more drama, but in regards to the thread then obviously you shove this everytime coz as chuck said a loose passive is never folding something he'll call then raise on this flop and a card like the 8h could be really scary for him.

What would have made this hand more interesting was if there was still a guy to act behind you, but as is you can't do anything but shove here.

bob_tiger said:

I'm asking for serious responses as to whats best way to get the money not the smart azz response that I already know thats our goal

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Wasn't my smart ass response a vote for shoving?

c9 basically summed up exactly what you need to do, you put all of your money in in this spot. So many action killing cards to come on the turn + villain has called/3bet on the flop + you have the nuts = snap shove, expect to be called 99% of the time, fistpump

switch0723 said:

c9 basically summed up exactly what you need to do, you put all of your money in in this spot. So many action killing cards to come on the turn + villain has called/3bet on the flop + you have the nuts = snap shove, expect to be called 99% of the time, fistpump

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This threads intention was not to find out something I already didn't know but perhaps see in what spots it would be better to just flat or perhaps a small raise instead of just summing it up for me something that I already know. I feel like many people are starting to put less and less thought into hands because everything is so standard for all of us, why don't we slow down and you answer this question for me, is there one right way to play poker? Actually i will answer it for you, NO there isn't, so why can't we stop thinking of all of these standard plays that sum up everything and look at negative and positive effects of playing it differently than the standard shove. That was the whole purpose of this thread.

feitr said:

Oh great more drama, but in regards to the thread then obviously you shove this everytime coz as chuck said a loose passive is never folding something he'll call then raise on this flop and a card like the 8h could be really scary for him.

What would have made this hand more interesting was if there was still a guy to act behind you, but as is you can't do anything but shove here.

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Right to be honest I was getting to that part, I know how the hand played but I was going to ask some questions as what if there is someone to act behind what do we do then and stuff like that but when you always get these "standard summary" responses kind of hard to.

I did like chuck's reason for shoving because of card killers and him perhaps shutting down.

as much as your right in saying there isn't just 1 way of playing poker, there is usually 1 most +EV way of playing hands, and here that most profitable way is to shove

switch0723 said:

as much as your right in saying there isn't just 1 way of playing poker, there is usually 1 most +EV way of playing hands, and here that most profitable way is to shove

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right thats why we discuss these type of things and explain why by seeing both negative and positive effects of each type of line we take, and then we realize which one is most profitable in long run. Look I'm sorry I sort of I blew up but I just wish our discussions were a little more in depth, and like feitr mentioned we could discuss the what if hands and our plan for those type of scenarios, like what if there was someone else to act after and how it would change against different players.


After all this is a poker forum right?

bob_tiger said:

right thats why we discuss these type of things and explain why by seeing both negative and positive effects of each type of line we take

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But isn't it obvious? Plus we have one of these threads posted by new players every couple of weeks. If you were a 10$ NL new player, I'd go into way more detail & cut out the smartass parts. But if I say "shove this flop" you can pretty much figure out why, and you're probably just posting it because you're downswinging or whatever & you're losing confidence in your game, or for some other reason. You probably don't need a super long explaination. If you wanted to post a spot where flatting would have merit, or the best value extracting decision would be close between shoving & flatting, then post one, no matter if you made it up or actually played the hand. But I think its pretty obvious here that flatting is criminal.

As the others said, flatting here is not really an option. You are getting reraised by a passive player. The only thing you should be worried about here is not throwing your arm out of socket by fist pumping.

In general, my criteria for flatting with top set includes a drier flop than this, stacks smaller than those involved, and preferably heads up. The more villains in the hand, the more likely their bets are indicative of the true strength of their hands. If we were heads up with another reg, we could consider FPS. That, and if you flat here, there's almost no way to get the rest of villains stack unless you put money in behind.