QUICK add-on question

That sounds to me like the best advice in this whole thread.

Personally, I hate rebuys. What could be worse than having to get rid of the same donk three or four times ?

Trouble is, you may have an "infinite edge" over someone who's busted out and doesn't rebuy, but you don't have an edge over everyone else in the tournament. In fact you're automatically near the bottom of the pile, at a big disadvantage to people with larger stacks.

I'm not convinced that you do actually do always have a positive expectation for return on rebuys, but I think we agree it's going to be less than your normal expected return. Even if it is positive, if it's less than your normal return, your overall ROI will decrease on average because this lower expected return brings your average down.

Having thought about it for a while, I think (and this is just my theory btw) that the best strategy is to enter rebuys because you will get a higher overall ROI on average (due to the expanding prize pool from rebuys) but don't rebuy yourself because each rebuy gives lower than average expected return. Instead use the money to enter another tourney.

I can't claim to be any sort of expert on rebuy tournaments, but I'm just trying to think of it from a theoretical point of view based solely on ROI. There are other factors that should be taken into account, e.g. rebuying is fun, and more importantly your rate of return per hour played, consideration of which may give a different verdict.

Add-ons = a whole different matter.

You've made me think here, which I appreciate.

I still think your logic is flawed though.

You are, I think, making too much of the 'disadvantage' with regard to chipstacks that you're at when you rebuy. Taking Stars rebuys as an example, blinds at the end of the first hour are 50/100. You can double rebuy, as you can in most. That's 3000 chips. The addon is a further 2000 chips. That's 5k chips at 50/100 blinds if you rebuy towards the end of the rebuy period. 50BBs is plenty of chips to enforce a skill edge with.

Also, and this I feel is crucial, if you play rebuys as you suggest, the vast majority of the time you are going to end up with a short stack at the end of the rebuy period anyway. Coupled with the edge you're giving away by not rebuying if you bust, this is huge. You say you are at a disadvantage if you rebuy because of the stack you will have, are you not also at a disadvantage because you are playing very tightly so as to conserve your only buyin you're prepared to invest, and thus often having a short stack as a consequence?

I don't think you're likely to end up with a short stack at the end of the rebuy period if you don't rebuy. This would only be the case if people who rebought are likely to have bigger stacks than those who haven't - I think the opposite is true, because the big stacks don't need to rebuy, and people who have rebought will have had less time to build them back up.

There may be some effect as you point out if you put yourself at a disadvantage by playing too conservatively, and it may be the case that the big stacks are those who played aggressively and got lucky. But you can still play aggressively, and if you bust out, start another tournament where you'll be getting better value for your buy-in.

You may get enough chips to enforce your skill edge with from a rebuy, but you've got to admit that if you do rebuy, you are at some disadvantage to those with bigger stacks?

When I play a rebuy it is with the intention of rebuying at the break. Have busted & left the game without rebuying if I felt that I was playing poorly, but every time I have reached the rebuy break I have rebought regardless of stack size. I think of it basically as shit happens insurance.

On further reflection (and sorry to keep dragging this thread back from the dead), it may not be a positively BAD move, although not optimal, to rebuy in the early stages. The ROI on a rebuy may still be higher than your freezeout ROI.

Given that the ROI on late rebuys, when other stacks are much larger, are a losing proposition (low or negative), the initial buy-in for a good player must have a higher than normal ROI.

In the situation where you bust out on your first hand, the ROI you get from a rebuy will be almost identical to that of your buy-in. As play continues, and your odds of getting into the money with only the minimum "rebuy stack" decline, rebuys become progressively less attractive. There must be a cross-over stage where you start getting a lower than normal ROI.

However, it would still be the case that you'd be better off from an ROI perspective not rebuying, and entering a new rebuy tournament if you bust out, because this will always give you the highest ROI.

Again would stress this is just from a simplistic ROI perspective - time or practical considerations, or even capital gained through reads on your opponents, may also increase the attractiveness of a rebuy.

this thread was goot, archiving~