I give you a hand with a poll

I cant be bothered to look through PT, but I'm sure you've all played similar hands before:

6max, Full Tilt, 100NL, both hero and villain have $100 in their stack. Assume no reads.

Preflop (6 players): Hero is dealt on the button
2 folds, CO calls, Hero raises to $4.5, 2 folds, CO calls.

Flop ($10.5, 2 players):
CO checks, Hero.....?


Please give reasoning for your answer as well

I voted bet. Checking says you don't have an Ace. I bet and hope to take it down right there.

If CO had an Ace, he would have bet on the flop (in theory anyway). If he does have an Ace, he has a weak kicker. Making a bet on the flop tells Co that you still have a good hand (which you do) but CO will probably think you have a better kicker dur to the raise preflop. You have to represent your hand. Checking only gives CO a free card, which you don't want to do.

Id bet this about 80% of the time, It depends how often I had been continuation betting. If I had been CBetting alot then I might check this being afraid villian has noticed this and is check/raising me.


but if I have a normal table image this is prefect flop for a continuation bet and if it is called you can re-evaluate the turn and see what to do. I would most likley also bet the turn and hope to go check/check on river.


you say no reads but I would open up my pokerace hud drop down stats to see how much villian chek-raises.... hehe

play it like i had the A, bet $2-$5, and if he calls or raises, i know he has the A, but i would not pause, i would make the bet fast.

An easy bet.. You've got to find out where your kings are.. If you check, it leaves open a chance for him to bluff at you OR think his ace small is good.. Altho I doubt he would call the raise with ace small.. But i've seen more weird things happen..

So bet out a good.. $4~5, if you get raised let go of the hand.. if you get called and he checks again.. I would just check it down since he wouldnt be chasing anything on that board.

Personally, I would put him on low pocket's... Due to his limp and then call of your raise... Dunno what other hands would really do that..

check

most prob you have the best hand

what cards are you worried about?

not aces, if he has one already, another doesn't matter

call this one down if he bets on further streets, u win with kings, or lose less to aces

if he checks on further streets, bet, win a bit more

I think you would have to bet. He checked the flop when the ace came down, which shouldve been a bet to protect just the pair of aces. If he calls your bet on the flop thats when i may get a bit worried and think about checking the turn... but in this circumstance I can't see a check as a good option.

If i'm villain, and I see a check behind after my check in this sorta situation... I immediatly sense weakness..Or great strength which would be either AA or 99... Which is enough for me to toss out a good $5~6 bet on 4th street (If I was the villain) depending what the card is...Wether I have the ace or not.. Which would really put hero in a tough situation. A check behind screams out pocket's that are scared off by the ace.

I dont think what to do is the question, i think its how much. I think you bet about 3/4 the pot here and take it down right here because he has like KQ or something silly like that, he isnt gonna smooth call if you are beat, if he Reraises you then fold

You have to bet - you've got position, you raised PF, so unless he flopped off a monster and is slow playing (just not likely), you're ahead, even if he has an Ace. Anything up to about A-10 should fold to your bet anyway, because with your PF raise he can't rule out you having Ace and better kicker.

Besides, betting is the only way to find out if he even has an A.

remember this is also low limit hold-em and limping with hands like AJ and AQ are possible. I actully think they are trapping by playing like that, dont ask me why?!?!

there are alot of possibilities here but I dont think that changes the fact that even with small pair you are betting a continuation bet here. This is perfect flop for a continuation bet because of the ace.


ps: your still a donk longshot

pss: just kidding buddie.

psss: maybe.

I'd bet. if he'd called preflop with a pair he's as unhappy as you with the flop. If he's got an Ace you'll find out as cheaply as possible. It's a waste of KK - you want an opponent with QQ and a low flop, but a check here leaves you having to make a more difficult decision in later streets.

OK, well only one other person got the right answer (I was the other person that voted to check). This is a pretty cut and dried situation. Checking is clearly best and it isn't close.

Before I give the reasons why, I want to hear why you think it might be that checking is best

There is no "right" and "wrong" answer. Therefor you cannot come in and say that you are right, especially when it seems that the overwhelming majority thinks that you need to be aggressive and lead out at this pot. unless you are saying that a majority of the people who replied are donks?

here we go hijacking another thread longshot, by the way stay away from my kiddie game.

on serious note though yes I'm betting this flop almost everytime which I already said....back on topic.

Checking just invites a bet on the turn and then the Hero is faced with a tough decision and probably cannot call.

longshot,

yes, I am saying that the majority here are wrong. It doesn't mean that they are donks, it just means they are yet to fully grasp some poker concepts.

There is quite clearly a more +EV line than another, and the most +EV line is to check, so I am calling that the "right" answer. I'll explain why later, but I'd like to here your thoughts on why checking might be best

Wouldn't mind an explanation and I surely hope It isnt results oriented...

I don't think there has ever been a hand of poker played where what to do is cut and dry..There is so much variance as to how play a hand that just about anyone can make a case for checking or raising in any situation that's it all relative..

All that being said I believe betting is the best option..You have to see where you stand..If he smooth calls he may have an ace and will be hoping to get in a check-raise on the turn when you fire at it again..If you check behind him and he leads on the turn, the best option (once again, in my opinion) is to check-raise..If he re-raises you then you should probably be done with the hand..IF he smooth calls then you evaluate the hand on the river before deciding what to do..However, all of these scenarios cn simply be avoided by betting the flop to get a reaction from your opponent..You actually may save yourself a bet or to instead of check/calling the turn and river since if he re-pops you you can pretty much put him on an ace to begin with..

I completely 1000000% disagree. A bet here, lets hero take the lead, he is the aggressor in the hand and is putting the pressure on the opponent. A bet here could take down the pot against a player with like A 2. A check here is simply unacceptable. A check says to the opponent.... "please please bet on the turn and make me fold my kings when they are still good, i would very much love that" a check means that you are playing passive and passive poker is not winning poker. and also, nothing against you, but i highly doubt you have "fully" grasped poker concepts playing at 100 NL

longshot dont start him going it isnt pretty!

by saying you should check what is the point of ever continuation betting? I mean do you just continuation bet when you hit the hand? if that is case you will become very very readable.

I think you bet on flop no matter what unless your opponent has seen you continuation betting alot. So what do you do when he fires on turn? fold?

I will bet this flop nearly all the time with both AK and with 78s.

If he fires the turn, of cource I'm calling, folding would be retarded

Miscellaneous points. I don't think you can say the decision is 'not close', but I'm not hugely commited to either side of the argument.

- Ax is an unlikely holding for villain. Most people would raise with strong Aces and either raise or fold with weak Aces. A moderate/weak Axs is possible, I suppose. On occasions where villain has Ax, betting is clearly the best option as it will invariably be your cheapest route out of the hand. If villain calls or raises given that we represented an Ace preflop and on the flop, we can be done with the hand unless we hit 2 outs.

- If we bet the flop and can follow through with our bets on future streets, we will either (a) get called down by an Ace, (b) get slowplayed to death, (c) possibly force a weak Ax to fold, or (d) force any other weak holding that is calling the flop (~TT?) to fold. I think the two positive outcomes are slightly more likely than the two negative ones, treating both as separate 'groups'.

- If we bet the flop, very few hands that we are ahead of are calling, and very few, if any hands that we are behind are folding.

- If we check the flop, we may induce a bluff from villain on the turn. Against an unknown player (as I rambled on about in the AJs thread), this is potentially dangerous, however, although less so in this example as we have position and the pot is smaller.

- If we check the flop, we do not necessarily lose the initiative in the hand, as this is a flop villain would have been expecting us to c-bet, and the fact that we haven't may actually set off alarm bells. This is read-dependent though, to an extent.

so he puts pot size in on turn and river and you call both down and he shows some hand like A9 suited or something like that and you feel ok with that?

so basicly you let him control the whole hand and really didnt have clue what he had.

Or how about this you check and a Q hits turn and he flips over QQ and you lose where he would of folded to your continuation bet. Just seems silly to me.

I was going to say this, Or he shows up something like 99... I still agree with what I said earlier (To bet 4~5) , but am interested to see other people's view on why checking is a good decision.

dorkus,

if villain has Ax, checking >>>> betting

storm,

1) protecting vs 2 outs is silly, esp when i might be the person that needs to see the free card drawing to 2 outs

2) Without reads, my standard line is to call turn and fold river (ie. lose exactly the same when behind as i would had I bet the flop)

so, you would rather let him take the lead on the turn? so he can control what goes on with the hand? Also, checking gives him a chance to catch up with something Like 89s or something retarded like that. If he has 44 and hits his set on the turn you would feel awfully silly losing this pot wouldnt you?
Checking, and saying checking is good is advocating passive play. Passive play=bad; aggressive play=good; good>bad. equations dont lie. What is your name on any site....i would love to play you sometime ^_^

Think I see where reasoning is going so I will wait.

I dont see it as protecting though I see it betting to see where you stand in the hand.

your 2nd line makes sense and I kinda agree with it.

Bold Keyword is IF what if he has 88? betting is okay?

Underline That is refrickintarded....why call on the turn and plan to fold to another bet on the river? way to lose more money!

bet 7 and shut down if called

longshot his 2nd point makes sense, its same thing as you betting and him calling on flop then him firing on turn and u folding to his ace.


or check/check flop, him betting turn and you calling and you folding river.


actully the 2nd one is more +ev because u see more cards.


yea dude after writing that I see point.

I actully like checking here better good thread.



plus he wont always bet the river and get to see showdown.

You get too see more cards!!!! YAY lets celebrate cause guess what....so does he....dont give him the time to check up, you are behind a lot fewer hands on the flop as you are on the river.

Here are the way the hands can play out

Bet Flop-He Folds-You win
Bet Flop-He raises-You Fold
Bet Flop-He calls-Checks turn-You revaluate
Bet Flop-He calls-Bets turn-you fold

If you check tou are setting yourself up to get bluffed if he has the gusto to fire 2 bullets. You are also setting yourself up to lose more money than you should. If you are going to fold the river then you shouldnt even call the turn bet. if you do you are saying that you are calling for your 2 outs which is a bad move

I love to argue with this guy but I have to admit throwing around different things that could happen during hand, checking it seems to be the best +ev.


with KK with a ace out you really want to go to showdown and playing it by checking you most likley will get to go to at least the river and maybe even see a cheap showdown. A-rag usually wont bet the whole hand because they are scared there ace is no good. You get to see showdown and see what villian will run, also not even putting into account how much he will bluff.