Bottom set, lead out, or check ?

2 callers? ok, so you figure they have some kind of hand. maybe a straight draw, maybe top pair, maybe overcards. turn card is key. if it's a danger card: 6,8,T for a straight, then again i would bet to see where I am in the hand. u want a high card so someone possibly pairs up.
this checking I really dont like. IMO if you flop a big hand, then bet it. dont go over the top, but you want some action.

I agree with betting rather than checking, definitely. I just strongly feel that the reason that dwarves all the others is "for value" yet it seems to be one of the least mentioned ones.

To me, it's a little bit like saying that you're late for the bus and asking for advice and someone recommends "running for it, because exercise is good for you." It's the right thing to do, and it's a bonus that you get some exercise, but you're running because you want to catch the bus.

Setting a price to draw, getting information, disguising your hand, all of these are good reasons to bet. But in this hand, to me, they're icing on the cake. I want to bet because it's the best way to get more money in the pot with the best hand. Focusing too much on the other reasons for why leading out may be right is a tendency towards Fancy Play Syndrome.

Awesome thread, this.

I've found that slowplaying sets is the norm rather than the exception, that leading out after hitting is the true deception play. It's the old double-bluff. I really think that a lot of opposition start discounting the chance that you hold a set if you bet out.

good point bud, hadnt really thought of it that way.

totally agree with the main reason 'for value'. If you have a nut hand(not that this hand is the nuts, btw) your 'mission' is to get all of your chips/other callers chips in by the river. you check the flop you're potentially missing out on a round of betting.

If someone has 2 pair, you're going to get just as much or more money in the pot if you lead out anyway! You're not worried about 2 pair drawing out a full house on you, because at this point you're pretty much not going to be able to prevent 2 pair from playing. If they get lucky, so be it. But what about: 33, 44, 55, 66, 88, 56, 68, T8, JT. These are all hands that can become better than yours on the turn, but it's doubtful any of them would lead out with a bet. With 6 other limpers, plenty of these hands are very possible.

If it's checked around, a seemingly harmless 3 or 4 might hit the turn, and the player holding 33 or 44 just hit jackpot. Good luck getting away from the hand then. If you lead out, you might get called by a couple of straight drawing hands, but all those pocket pairs will almost definitely fold.

I want to respond before I read what anyone else has said. My first reaction was to bet the hand now because even though you have a set, it's bottom set and you're up against 6 limpers. Chances are good that one or more of them have already caught a pair or better. You do NOT want that many limpers to see another card. So, so, so.... Check! Yup you NEED to check this hand. It seems very unlikely to me that with 6 limpers to act, somebody isn't going to bet. Not impossible, but unlikely. The last thing you want to do is face 2, 3 or more of them on the next round, so you need to make hay now. You've probably got the best hand and you still need to get value for it. It would be a shame if you bet strong, only to see the table fold back around to you, or worse, they all call. If you check, you may get a bet or 2 and possibly a string of them. Then you make make your move. I don't think you need advice from me on what that move should be.

I'm beginning to think checking is not such a bad option.

Seat 1: Dinostar15 ($42.60 in chips)
Seat 2: daz5daz5 ($17 in chips)
Seat 3: hella0uts ($28.50 in chips)
Seat 5: LukCarm ($97.50 in chips)
Seat 6: Bombjack_x [5C,5S] ($27.30 in chips)
Seat 7: buddha boy ($24.35 in chips)
Seat 8: AdrenalineJ ($11.65 in chips)
Seat 9: Emoryplaya ($21.85 in chips)
Seat 10: mikeybonz3 ($51.20 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
hella0uts posts blind ($0.15), LukCarm posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
Bombjack_x calls $0.25, buddha boy folds, AdrenalineJ calls $0.25, Emoryplaya folds, mikeybonz3 folds, Dinostar15 calls $0.25, daz5daz5 calls $0.25, hella0uts calls $0.10, LukCarm checks.

FLOP [board cards 5H,7C,9S ]
hella0uts checks, LukCarm checks, Bombjack_x bets $1, AdrenalineJ folds, Dinostar15 folds, daz5daz5 folds, hella0uts folds, LukCarm folds.

SHOWDOWN
Bombjack_x wins $2.40.

Ok ill wrap up this thread.

The turn was the K.

I bet the pot 700, UTG calls, folded to the button who raised to 3K, i push all in (no point slowing it at this stage, hes just commited to the hand), I shove, he calls.

He shows AK, hits another K on the river, and i win a huge pot.

Continued ............... http://www.cardschat.com/showthread.php?t=73478

Nice pot, but did you check the flop?

Of course

A bit of a different situation as someone could have hit their straight already. You have to bet out here enough to see if someone has the straight. Also, if a 6 comes on the turn, I am not very comfortable putting $$ into the pot. But, if the 7 would have been a 4 (or less) I would have bet about .50 here. Make it look like a 'feeler' bet and keep the table interested and willing to call in attempt to hit their overcards. In the mean time, you have the possibility to triple the pot if everyone calls, which they probably will. You would not want to bet more than 1/2 the pot as that says you have hit your hand.

You are missing the point of the post. The plan here is to get chips into the pot and slow playing your set, leading out with a bet, followed by a caller is less likely to have more callers, as strengh has already been shown UTG, followed by a caller. Also, I didnt mention anywhere that this hand is unbeatable. Of course there is the possibilty of the outdraw, and you definitely dont want to be giving your opponents free cards with bottom set. If, in hindsight, you knew the hand was going to be checked around then of course you would bet out. But, as I said, its rare that 7 players will check the flop

I also disagree with your last comment. So you are telling me you would fold your 88 on that flop, followed by a UTG bet out and say a limper or 2? I certainly wouldnt

I like leading out and betting my sets. In this situation I would have bet 3-400. Building a pot when I have a set is the 1st thing that's on my mind with a board like that. 8 10, J 9, 9 10, ect... are the types of hands you may be up against. You might even be lucky enough to find a donk with overcards that things the Q on the turn in good(if it comes and they catch it of course) I think you'd get about 3 calls making a pot of around 2000, depending on how much you bet. Not only have you built a nice pot for yourself, betting 1500-2000 is justified and will more often than not take that pot down. Being so early in the tournament and not having any reads at all, trying to set up a trap or slowplaying in any way is wrong here. Start building your chip stack and your aggressive image with this hand and be ready for a good day of poker.

Officially, I voted lead out and bet. Which in most cases I would do. But in reality I would lean towards checking there and react accordingly. It's the 2nd hand of a tournament and in your position you should play it safe and see what people have in mind here and what the flow of the table is going to be. With 7 people in the hand, the table is fairly loose at the getgo so who knows what will happen with your raise. What are you going to do if he/they come over the top? All in with bottom set 2 hands into a tourney? Not me. I would feel pretty confident that someone will bet out. If you then want to represent you still can by check/raising.

A "weak" set is a hand I would rather play against a single opponent, or 2, rather than a pot full of limpers. Just too many random bad beats out there to give away free cards to that big a field. Bet right ou, half pot or so, if it decreases your profit potential, it also increases your peace of mind.

Most people would lead and bet out as the polls show.

Considering so many people have called, would you have called with pair deuces from small blind in the first place?

That's just the value of position isn't it. Since you're called you're like to be dragged into scenarios like this. Somebody might be drawing, hit their higher set, hit a two-pair and be waiitng for the fullhouse, yada yada. Wiht 2-pair on a small blind with so many callers and no reads... maybe best would have been to fold in the first place...

It didn't work lol - this thread won't wrap up.

i like this thread, its one of the few where ive actually used my 'poker' brain lately. and, KD, myself, this is what it should be about, this forum, so maybe for the next month or so i immerse myself in poker again.
wish me luck...............

Very, very good luck, KD, and welcome back.

thanks Egon.
good to see you still here mate.
KD

I agree with all of the above, except I would place a min. bet hoping to build the pot and get rid of the dead hands. This in essence would give me a great opportunity to reraise or bet the turn. Keep in mind that when you don't know anything about the other players at the table, they also don't know anything about you.

If I place a min. bet from EP on a rainbow flop you have to assume one of two things about me.

1) I have MPTK or BPTK

or

2) I'm a donk

Either way the flop is not very scary and I don't think I need to take this pot down now. If I get calls around I'm in a great position to check/raise the flop or If I get raised I can re-raise. Maybe I'm wrong here, but, I would take a chance to get some action.