400th Post: A Losing Players Testimony

So I started playing poker last June for fun online, wanting to build a BR from nothing. I learned to play poker at home games with family when I was young from my Grandfather, and basic strategy, like don't chase inside str8 draws and whatnot. Nothing too advanced because we weren't even teenagers yet.

So I started playing the 360 person Face the Ace SnG freerolls, and eventually won enough FTP's to join the daily dollar. I did not cash and shortly thereafter I ended up depositing since I had some extra cash, and had a taste of real money poker,so I thought.

When it came to real money poker,at first, I was doing ok but I didn't really know what I was doing so much. I looked on the internet for poker strategies and found some basic hand charts and stuff and a few forums. I tried out a few forums that were pretty worthless, until I happened upon CC.

-CC is by far my favorite, and the only forum I post on nowadays. When I do post, though, it is usually pretty worthless and random, and I tend to start too many threads of worthless info. Also, later I realize a lot of my posts could have just been 1 ongoing thread, as a lot of them are bad beat posts.

-I have not used CC to my full advantage, which is very stoopid on my part. I barely ever read through the strategy, or the Golden Archive, or post in the HA section for feedback and whatnot. Like I said when I post, mostly I am venting, on tilt from a bad beat and posting it, or replying to someone else's thread in the Poker Rooms section.

Back to the story tho.. Before I knew about all of CC's features and forums tho, I decided to go to the local library to see if they had any poker books. They had a few and I rented; 1 on stud which I never read, Phil Helmuth's Play Poker Like the Pros, and another on Limit which I also never read, and one other called Championship Poker or tournament poker or something like that and it had a little strategy on ALL the diff variants of poker.

I did not read the stud or limit he books because I wanted to play NLHe, and heard to find 1 game to learn at a time. I read the NLHe section in Phil Helmuth's book and in the other book, and also scanned over some of the other sections, like it had 08b strategy in the one which was pretty short.

Well Phil Helmuth's book was not very good imo, as it mostly talked about how great he was, and very basic strategy which did not help me. I actually think that after I read that book was when I noticed I was starting to lose. But, I had not been playing real money for very long, and wasnt like I started losing after winning continuously for any amount of time.

The other book by a different author wasn't very good either, it was very basic and vague IMO, and did learn a little from it but not much. This one was also pretty old, like I wanna say 1976 it was made, but maybe it was the 80's. I thought maybe it was a little outdated, and maybe needed something newer...NO it was not super system if anyone is thinking that.

So I eventually decided I wanted to learn Cash game play. This was after the library, but right around the time I found CC. I had been playing mostly FTP freerolls, and had not cashed in any for any money. I did cash in the Check-Raising the Devil freeroll for the autobiography though. Also as I mentioned I did win some of the Face the Ace freroll SnG's, 1 time I got 1st in the .net one, than after I realized there was a .com one that paid top 2 and only 180 players, instead of 360 players and only 1 paid spot on .net, I started playing those. I won a few and would unregister and use the ftp points to try and win T$ or play in the DD for ftp's. I never made any money that way.

I had always heard that a lot of pros made money in side games and whatnot, and just played in the Mtt's for publicity and sometimes only playing in the big Mtt's like the WSOP. This intrigued me, as well as the time factor in Cash games, being that you can get up whenever you want and not be committed to playing for hours, if something comes up.

So I went out and bought Harrington on Hold'em : Cash Games vol.1, as it was a decent amount of money, planning on buying vol.2 as soon as I finished reading through vol.1.

Well that was back in like August or September of 2009, and I still have not read all of HOH:CG vol1.... pretty stoopid I know. I started reading it, and I read the first chapter, which was very informative. It was a lot of info to take in, and when I read about poker strategy it seems to take a toll on my brain. I can only read so much before I start to not really take in what I am reading, and end up just kinda reading without paying attention. Which is OK, because I would read a little before work, or after work/ before bed and whatnot.

I was working a lot at the time, so did not have much free time. I had time to either play poker, or read the book, but not both all of the time. I would always chose to play poker instead of reading, I guess maybe I am a little impatient. When I did read about poker I would always do well for a short amount of time afterwords. The book got me thinking about what my opponents cards are and about pot odds, and eventually expressed odds. Just the first chapter alone answered a lot of questions I had. I would sometimes reread sections briefly before I would play, which also would get me kinda thinking in the right direction

So I would do well sometimes ,and then other times I would not do so well. I had deposited by now, and was definitely losing. I quit my job in like Nov., not because poker, but because my job was screwing me over on my pay, and this gave me lots of free time. I pretty much didn't have anything to do, BUT, play poker. I was still losing tho. I usually would do ok for a while, but then I guess lose interest or get distracted by my Girl Friend , or suffer a beat and tilt me. I would multi-table without a HUD and that would usually not end up well. Sometimes I could do alright, but the winning sessions were few and far in between. A lot of times I would start the day multi-tabling and would mostly lose if i jumped right into it. If I would play 1 game at a time and then add other tables after I was doing alright, than I could handle it and show profit.

I had not read from my HOH:CGv1 in a while, and decided it was time to finish it. So I reread ALL of chapter one, and understood everything much better the second time around, and was able to read the whole chapter without losing focus or attention to the book. Then I started chapter 2 and finished it, having reread a couple sections if they were detailed info, or things I thought I should re-read for a better understanding.

After chapter 2 though, I did not read chapter 3 right away. I would always have a winning session after I read it seemed , and then forget about the book. Or I would think to myself, "I'm just playing micro stakes, I wont need that info until I move up to higher limits."

Whenever I would win, or go on a good run, I would think I am the best player ever. I would also think that I didn't need to read poker books anymore, I could be one of the greats without it.

Well that thinking will get you nowhere, I can tell you that. I can prove it too, just look at my stats...

Like in chapter 2 on HOH:CGv1. it's all about preflop play, and tells you to make a starting hand chart for yourself and whatnot. With the chart you are supposed to put the % of times you are going to play a hand, and used an unbiased opinion(your second hand on watch) as the deciding factor. Well at first I didn't do this, but eventually did. I had another OK run, but lost the sheets of paper with it all written down shortly after, and stopped using it, and started losing again.

So I got mad about losing again, and had been playing sessions for way too long, which always hurts me. This time around I have been playing mostly Rush poker too. One day I have 8$ in my account, the next day $308, then I lose it ALLL AGAIN. I start to lose, or suffer a bad beat, and say to myself; "OK, I should probably step away for a minute and regroup," but never step away and just continue to play and lose, or "OK bad beats happen, just shrug it off and forget about it, and focus on the next hand, after all that's what the pro's do right." I continue to play, and continue to lose..

I started from $30 and turned it into over $200 a few times, even before Rush a couple times, but would never cash out, and eventually lose it. Since Rush has been out, I have turned $30 or $40 into over $200 a couple of times, and even up to over $375 one time, to lose it all the next day or two. If I had only withdrawn those few times, and left myself $30. Instead I would lose it all, an deposit another $30. Pretty dumb huh?

So now I have decided, I like Rush, but I think I need to just stick to Ring or SnG or Mtt, as Rush is so new, and I still need to learn the game better.

It is hard to play without any reads, but I used to multi-table while watching a movie or TV with my GF sometimes, and used to not pay attention and do OK. I guess I did OK occasionally, and was probably losing more than winning. I would also only play very strong hands; because it seems when I only play 1 table I get bored sometimes, but when I played multiple I would have more chances to see some action. When I played only 1 table I would get bored and play too weak of starting hands, or WAYY to many speculative hands, from being impatient.

So I started reading chapter 3 or 4, cant remember now(flop play vs 1 opponent), and have gotten almost through it, but then started to play more poker. So the viscous cycle continues.

I am almost done now with HOH:CGv1., and I guess I should buy vol.2.

Another thing I don't have is a HUD or analyzing software. After a session I usually don't go back through the HH and analyze my play. I NEED to start doing this if I want to get better. How am I supposed to become a winning player if I don't fix the things that are making me lose? I guess you can't.

You know I see a lot of posts about people who say they are losing, and don't know whats wrong. Usually it is they are playing too many tables, or they have no idea of any strategy from which to build off of.

I kinda know what is wrong with my play, yet I do not try very hard to fix it. I become impatient at poker, yet I can sit in the woods on a ~1.5 foot by ~1.5 foot seat 20-30 feet up in the air with a loaded gun on my lap without moving anything but my eyes to the left and right for hours on end and as long as 8 hours sometimes and know that I might not see a single deer, yet I never become impatient. I can sit there and fish for hours upon end and not catch a single thing, yet never become impatient at that also.

Why am I so impatient when it comes to poker? I know that you are supposed to be patient and wait for good spots, and let others make the mistakes.

Why do I not follow Bank Roll Management? I think that comes back to patience also. I stop following BRM when I lose money. That's probably when I should be following it the most and moving down in limits. Why do I move up to higher limits even though I have read over and over again that it is a big no no? Well because I am hoping to get lucky and make up my losses quickly, instead of being patient, and moving down and making up my losses safely at a limit I can afford.

I have even told myself that I won't lose when I tilt if I just stop playing when I tilt. Well that didn't work either. I wouldn't follow BRM anyway, and when I tilt when I am not following a good BRM strategy I lose everything pretty quickly. When you tilt you make decisions you wouldn't normally make, like to keep playing when you should take a break. So that didn't work.

I would not evaluate my HHs after a session. Why? I guess that comes back to impatience also. I guess I just wanted to play another session or do something else, always finding the time to do what I wanted to do, but not what I needed to do: like review my sessions.

I also start forgetting about odds, and throwing them out the window numerous times. I start chasing inside str8s, and backdoor draws and stoopid things. I see some donk get lucky and crack my Aces with J6o utg calling my shove on the flop with him having top pair and he hits 6 on the turn and 6 on the river, and I guess it tilts me and I say if he can do it I can do it. So I become the chasing donk at the table I guess, and mostly because I want to win or get "lucky" for the win, because become impatient.

I play for too many hours at a time. I need to realize that I am not going to play the same after 4 or 5 hours of playing, as when I first started the session for the day. I will start playing for the day and leave a few tables after doubling my buy-in. I don't ALWAYS win when I first start playing, but I definitely play an OK game with a clear head, and have patience to wait for a hand, instead of trying to make lemonade out of potatoes, and I take all things into consideration, odds, ranges, etc.
I will start the day winning, than will start losing after a while, and have played poker all day online. Sometimes more than 8 hours. I will then wake up the next day and do it all over again. If I am on tilt or playing bad the day before and play all day the next day and all day the next day and then the next, etc., than I never do well. I think I need to be patient, wait a day or 2, or even a week maybe to step away from the game. Regroup and come back.


You know I tell myself these things, but the I never listen to myself. I start out great, following BRM, playing good hands, and not chasing bad odds. But in a day or two I start econd guessing myself, and end up right back to my old ways and back to no bankroll. Do other people do this, I don't think I am alone?

I am ill informed on a subject that takes time to master, but very achievable if you take the time and the resources out there to try and master it. The resources are there for one to learn the subject, but one needs to use those resources.

People always say that at the micro stakes that you just need to play good starting hands, and don't bluff, or over-think your opponents. Well I try to bluff too much and over-think everything way too much. Like I said I don't analyze my play, I get tilted way too easily and don't stop playing when I should, and I also become impatient and start focusing on immediate results instead of long run results. If you want to become a winning player, I can tell you all the things not to do, as I know from experience how to be a losing player.

So take my testimony, and please learn from it. If you do not take the time to learn the game, or take the time to analyze your play to realize your weaknesses, or do not use the resources such as CC or poker books to improve your knowledge, than you will go nowhere but down. Yes you might get lucky and win a session or two, or even go on a great run and win some money, but in the long run you will lose it all if you do the things I do.

If there is one thing that I have learned from this expensive lesson, it is that poker really is about the long run. Yes you can win 100$ by getting lucky in a day of poker, but that's all it is is luck. The skilled players are the ones who have patience, and can show profits continuously. They know what to expect because they have studied and spent hours analyzing and refining there skills, as does any master of his trade.

Sounds pretty familiar I seem to do the same thing, I dont really chase the gutshots but I seem to sometimes chase the open ender or flush draws. I placed 7th last night in the CC freeroll and went right to the tables and proceded to lose it in a matter of an hour when I should have turned off the computer and went to bed with a little BR and played another day. But I think I will go out this week and buy Harringtons book because I have never read a poker book yet. I think I have the patience to be able to be an ok player but I should study more. Good post and GL and maybe study more and you should turn that 300.00 into alot more.

I have a $25 gift card to amazon. I also have enough academy credits and/or ftp points to where I could get a couple books. Either HOH: cash games vol.2 and I was thinking maybe I should get the HOH: vol 1 and 2 tournament. Or I could get like Odds and probabilities book they have?

I also don't usually chase the inside draws, but I have caught myself doing it more lately. I kinda just rambled a bunch of stuff out..and might have repeated myself a couple times. I had 2 graphs on there...are they not allowed? or did i delete them by accident?

Well there were supposed to be 2 graphs to show how horrible I have done since last June when I started playing.

I'm sure a lot of us have been there. Don't fret. Poker takes a lot of time, a lot of dedication, and a lot of learning. There's not a single session where I looked back and didn't say "Why did I do that? WTF was I trying to accomplish?" Don't worry I am in the same boat as you. I'm still recovering from losses from like the past 5 years. I took a break from online poker and even had a long absence from CC for awhile. I just needed to take a step back and regain composure. In my off time I read probably 15 - 20 poker books that were written by "pros" honestly I don't think they wrote more than 10% of the book in most cases.

Over lifetime stats I've probably lost $4 to $6K online, and that's from being a "degenerate gambler" and not a "poker player". Don't think of this as a failing part of playing, just think of it as a expensive learning experience.

In regards to PT3 and HEM, I highly suggest it, even when I started to play seriously I was playing 1 table at a time and much like you, boredom got the best of me and J9s looked playable from UTG. Since I've bought HEM and PT3 (yes I have both), I'm gradually increasing my win rate and it is helping my game a lot.

More importantly than anything is discipline. If you start using PT3 or HEM and get tilted on one table and you have like 8 up, that tilt will affect all your tables. Just take loses and suck outs in stride and don't take them personally. Just know that most likely that player was us one day the "Big Fish Trash Talker Who Chases Runner Runner Flush With A2s" I'm guilty of it, when it happens to me: "It's Karma"

Keep your chin up, keep reading books, but not just read but try to absorb all the information possible from them. Keep on learning plays and strategies. BTW, if you have $1.50 there's a tourney this Saturday for Dusty Schmidt's book "Treat Your Poker Like A Business" it's a great read and it's being sent for free to 1st place.

-Sean

[/quote]You know I tell myself these things, but the I never listen to myself. I start out great, following BRM, playing good hands, and not chasing bad odds. But in a day or two I start econd guessing myself, and end up right back to my old ways and back to no bankroll. Do other people do this, I don't think I am alone?[/quote]

Of course - I have had a terrible discipline following my own BR guidelines, tho l8tly I have been doing good with it - in the past tho... "BR = 1 buy-in right?" was my motto. you really need to follow it like it is your job to do so.

Dont get too discouraged - use this as motivation to tighten up your game and BR management.

I am extremely impressed with the honesty you have put forth in this post. I have printed it to post next to my play area as a reminder to stay the course and use best judgement at all times.

Thank you and Good Luck

I get your drift buddy. You're like me in a way.. I always triple/quad my initial deposit and go broke. I seriously need to revisit JF's bankroll management strategy.

If you don't mind a suggestion, before buying any more books, check these out if you haven't already (and if you have already, forget I intruded)-

10k post: micro stakes full ring guide [long]

Ring Game Hand Analysis: Required Reading

http://www.gamblingsystem.biz/books/2p2NL6max.pdf (this is referenced in the required reading post, but the link is broken, I think this link works)

That's actually the sequence in which I'd read these threads.

I've read tons of poker books and realized that, outside of three or four of them, they all say pretty much the same things (for NLHE - I'm less well read outside of NLHE). I'm not discouraging you from reading widely - but the above I think will be more useful to developing your game than Harrington on Cash Games.

gl!

thanks sly, for these links, will read these when I get some time.
Vfranks, good luck bud, and get yourself into the strategy/ha threads, they help.

I don't think it's necessarily patience that's the issue. Feel free to tell me I'm way off base, but hunting and fishing are completely different from a psychological perspective from poker.

When you're sat at a lake fishing (or in the woods hunting), what happens is ultimately out of your control. You can find what you perceive to be a good spot, pick your bait appropriately and cast your line, but ultimately the excitement is dependent on circumstances that are out of your control. You can do everything right (or as right as possible) and not get a single bite in hours. The vast majority of your excitement is derived from what may happen rather than what is actually happening at a specific moment in time.

Poker is hugely different. I think part of your problem is that in poker we can often make our own instantly gratifying excitement, at the expense of optimal play. Say you have a gutshot or something and you're bet into, it's innately exciting when you call and that gutshot hits. Even the thought of that gutshot hitting is exciting - infinitely more exciting than folding and nothing happening, even if folding is the clearly preferable option.

This ties in with your BRM problem too. Playing for pennies isn't exciting - playing for significant portions of your bankroll is. Spending an hour after a session analysing your hands isn't exciting, but it's necessary.

So yeah, scratch the patience angle. I don't think it's a problem with you being impatient - I think it's a problem with you placing too much emphasis on seeking instant excitement and gratification. Although on the face of it the two seem like the same thing, there are, as I've explained above, subtle differences.

Ultimately you are the only one who can choose whether you want to continue as you apparently have been - by viewing poker as entertainment and a gateway to excitement, or by moving the goalposts and changing your entire outlook on what actually is exciting. All the hours and days you spend fishing ultimately seem like they're truly worth it that one time every few months (or however long) you reel in an absolute beast of a fish, and in a similar way it would pay to adjust your mindset so that all the hours and days you spend playing poker in a somewhat unexciting manner suddenly become worth it when in 6 months time (or whatever) you can post a graph that shoots upwards, and when in another 6 months time (or whatever) you can cash out a decent sum of money and buy something funky. Playing optimal poker isn't necessarily instantly rewarding or exciting, but the best players derive their 'excitement' (should they need to derive excitement from poker) from the long-term rewards that playing optimal poker brings.

This thread is a good starting point. While I'm not going to patronize you with crap like "YEAH DUDE IT TOOK REAL BALLS FOR YOU TO POST THIS THREAD" because it's ultimately just words on the internet, I will say that this thread is refreshing because of things like every time someone makes a "post your graph" thread >95% of the graphs being upward lines, despite the fact that I'd guess that way over half the semi-regular/regular posters here are still long-run losing players.

I also think that TV has made poker seem like its very exciting and there is always a big hand and big decisions and big pots when in reality it can be the most boring thing around waiting for a fish to bite. TV doesn't show the countless hands that are folded and folded. Its a grind and the people who make it are the ones who love poker and keep at it forever. The thing I have going for myself is I do it for the enjoyment, I like playing cards! I have from the time I was a little kid and I do it for fun not the immediate result of winning, I'm not a big money player or ever want to be so I guess I dont put a lot of pressure on my results although I always am trying to get better which is why I come here and look for assistance.

Thanks. Yeah, absorbing the info is the hard part. Especially if it is new info. That's why I sometime have to read and then re-read a section in order to fully understand it, but even then I guess I still need to practice it in order to fully absorb it.


No prob. It's not like I have anything to hide. I have been thinking the only way to fix the problem, is to be honest to myself.

Thanks for those links. I have seen them before, and saved them in bookmarks, but then switched browsers and lost where I put them. That is another way I have not used this forum to my advantage... I had found a page with a bunch of links, those included, and saved it planning to look later and then never did. I think I glanced over the micro stakes one before, but did not read the whole thing. I will definitely read those, and thanks for posting the links here!
I have a 25$ gift card I need to use that I got for Christmas to amazon the bookstore. I want to buy a poker book, as I am not in need of any other type of books at the moment So if I were to buy another poker book. Would you suggest I get the second Volume2 cash games since I already have Vol.1? Or should I go for something like Colin Moshman's Sit n Go book, or HoH: tournament series 1 or something? I am definitely going to start using CC to my advantage more, but am going to buy at least 1 more book with this gift card.
I do know that a lot of poker books reiterate the same things. When I was reading cash games vol 1, they refer to things briefly that they say they explained in the other series, and more in depth. That's probably a advertising method that trapped me into thinking I need the first series tho. Most things I am unclear on are most likely explained in depth here on CC anyway, I just need to take the time to find/read them.


Thanks, I will.

Wow, I never really thought of it like that. You kinda put some things in perspective for me. Thanks for this post.

Gift cards are cool!

Moshman is very good, HoH is much better than H on Cash imo.

For cash games, I'd suggest looking at Ed Miller's books - I haven't read No Limit Holdem Theory and Practice by Sklansky and Miller, but I understand it's excellent. I love Professional No Limit Holdem by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta, and a third author whose name I forget - the stack to pot ratio (SPR) discussion is invaluable.

one more question..
I like cash games, but have dabbled in MTT and SnG play also and feel I could do well in those also(if I put the time into it). I hear about alot of players switching from MTT or SnG to learn cash games, but I don't hear about people learning SnG or Mtt after crushing Cash games(maybe I just don't remember though). Is it a better idea to learn tournament style play before cash play, in that order? Or is it ok to just pick a game your good at, and go with it...whether Ring/SnG/or Mtt? I ask this because I sometimes think maybe I would do better playing SnG's sometimes, but always go back to cash games because I have played way more cash games, and read more on cash games I guess.

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I guess these aren't as bad.

I can't really afford HEM or PT3 yet, and I used the trials last year. Does realtime hud still work does anyone know, on pokerstars or ftp? I was thinking i could use that until I can pay for a hud?

Ah im not gonna mess with realtime hud, found a post saying that it prolly doesnt work anymore anyway. I will get pt3 or hem soon enough i guess.

Totally different monsters IMO. I think I've adjusted my play too much, I'm not winning cash on Bodog but am Crushing the SnG's and getting ITM in MTTs plenty of times. Which is exactly the opposite of what I was doing. I just think I enjoy SnG and MTT competition opposed to $ Games at the moment. I'll post these graphs up later if you like. I'll show my cash one and I'll show you my SnG and MTT one, hugely diverse as the cash graph is all negative.

i have won thousands and lost thousands
i have read and read and read
education in poker costs money at every level
most people lose money sad but true
great players go broke
enjoy playing win or lose play well learn from winning players you can track and watch them at your play level see the things they do notice how few hands good players play!
poker is entertainment if its not your job I feel bad for those who have made it a job.......
freerolls are not real sorry its like a golf swing screw it up it may never come back David Duval
I wish you well

i think the reason most players go from MTTs and STTs to cash games is that they realize if u can beat the cash games they are more profitable.

but dan makes a good point...

and if your a winning player then its entertainment with benefits. so do what your good at and what is enjoyable i guess.

also, good luck on your poker progress

You've lost $1,000 playing poker. Can you afford NOT to get HEM or PT3? I would offer the (intended) friendly suggestion that you can't afford to keep doing what you're doing. Seriously, with 100,000 hands you could post your stats and somebody could tell you where to look for problems.

You sound like you know what you're doing wrong. IMO, poker is not a game for people without self-discipline, which means doing what you know is right even though you really want to call that 2 outer because it'd be SO cool if you hit. I suck at folding when I have 4 to a straight flush just because getting one is so rare. But if you want to go from losing to winning, you have to start picking the things that make you lose and stop doing them. A friend of mine has a real hard time with the idea that playing winning poker can be boring. Fold, fold, fold. Well, ya do what works. He has fun, but loses, but he has enough money that he doesn't care.

Another thing that would be an immediate boost to your win rate is a pic without money in it. Never really looks as cool as people think it does.

RF

I could have bought a HUD at one point but didn't, but I am not gonna deposit or add any money to poker for a little while, as I just paid for school and don't have a job right now, and my gf just lost her job. So until I get a more steady flow of cash, I am gonna be a little tight. got a little on ftp right now, like 8$, gonna try not to lose it. I guess I will be buying a hud, but I dunno why but i told myself to just wait till wee see what happens in usa with online poker, but who knows for sure how long I could be waiting.
Those times when I had my BR up a bit, I shoulda withdrawn and used the funds for a hud. Guess that can be my goal..to try and make enough for a hud, that should pay for itself.

I been playing 2nl on pokerstars and ftp, and not doing so well today and yesterday. So I tried a couple 6max turbo sng's.1$ ones on ftp, and won 1st 2 times in a row, outta 2 played, and even KO'ed every single person myself in the first one haha. So that got my spirits up a little. And I acctually reviewed my hands in pokerstove, and I got my money in good most of the time, the 1 time i remember I didnt when a guy tried to slowplay aces on me when i hit 269 flop with q9s from button him in bb but i was big stacked and he r my c-bet allin and i sucked out a Q on the turn to bust him anyway haha.

I believe I can do well at poker, just like with anything in life, if I set my mind to it I can do it. I want to get better at poker, and have fun playing, but I put the "having fun" part before anything else. And don't put the time in to fix my leaks. I mean I see posts sometimes that say things like "ohh what am I doing wrong blah blah blah"... and I am a losing player, but I can see what they did wrong, and know what I do wrong. I am not always right, but i am a lot of times, and the times I am right is because of other posts I have read around here. One thing I have never really done is review my sessions, and from what I hear, and from a little common sense, I think it is time to start doing that.

I got PT3. I manually imported all my hands into the database and whatnot. Which has taken me all day pretty much, just waiting around for them to load. I now have to set-up my HUD, which I had done before when I had the trial, but I had uninstalled everything from this computer so I had to do everything from scratch. There was a What-stats-display-hud post on here I used before for reference, but I thought the guy used it for 6max I dunno, I like FR usually.

it looked like this:

vp/pfr/3bettotal/total af/#hands--newline
cbet flop/ cbet turn/ fold to cbet --newline
att to steal/ fold sb to steal/ f bb to steal

I think that is how I had it before, though I might tweak it some.

Couple of suggestions on your HUD -

1. No need for fold sb to steal, fold bb to steal is enough
2. Add fold to 3bet

Cool, I think I had added WTSD or W$SD or both before, but it was a little cluttered. I think it shows that in the dropdown menu tho. For the tournament HUD, I can usually just use the same stats right?

I obviously play way too loose. Especially from the BB and SB eh? WOW I mean I am positive in every position, BUT the SB and BB and button too actually but not as much as the BB. The BB and SB loses together are more than I have even lost total I believe.

I watched TPC's video on pt3, and it really helped me understand pt3 beyond the HUD. When I had the trial before, I pretty much only used the HUD. The cash and MTT tabs had done nothing but intimidate me before. But after reading all the guides and how-to's on the pt3 website, and watching tpc's vid, I feel I can use this program to my advantage much better.

thanks for sharing and congrats on your 400th. and just remember all poker players lose from time to time you can't always win.
i'd stay away from "rush" poker too i haven't played it yet and don't want to.
gl on the felt.

Chasing something like a gutshot straight draw isn't necessairly a bad thing. Just make sure you take the situation into account. For example, you have enough chips that calling to chase won't cripple you or hurt you much at all, and you need odds of 11:1 either immediately or implied (you think the player you are up against will easily pay you off if you hit).
Then after chasing the turn, you need to consider check/folding when your draw misses and someone bets giving you horrible odds, or leading out with a tiny bet (which looks weak in the first place so this isnt a great move), to try to see the river cheaply. Just make sure you don't spew when you miss and don't spew trying to hit.

Hey on pt3 for the hud, do people usually check the [] stats from current cash limit only? ...and if you don't click that will it combine limit and NL stats?

There's an easy, instant +EV adjustment, then. Figure out what your win (loss) rate from the SB and BB would be if you -always- folded the blinds. If you're currently doing worse than that, start always folding the blinds unless you're the BB and it's checked to you. It's not optimal, for sure, but if it's better than what you're doing now...

RF

Gotcha. I also get into trouble with marginal hands when I see a free flop from the BB, but that's just me being stoopid playing marginal hands oops lol.


Does anyone know the answer to my question about pt3 [] stats from current cash limit? ^^

I do not click the current cash limit only button, and have only played limit briefly (and accidentally).

RF

Does PT3 recognize rush hands diffrently than ring hands? Sorry for the dumb questions.

It is good, but it is a very dull and difficult read. Unlikely to suit Vernon, since he has problems reading and absorbing Harrington, which is more approachable.

I mean I understand it, but I cant read it from front to back in one sitting without my head blowing up.

You don't have to. Pick one thing and get better at that. Like playing from the blinds, for example. I've been playing for a couple years and just a few months ago spent some time really understanding set mining.

NLHE looks like a simple game, but it's deceptively complex. There's nothing wrong with taking it one step at a time.

RF