400NL 6 handed: Flop a set of 2's

calibanboy

calibanboy

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Hello, I would like your views please? I will post the result of the hand later....


Situation: Standard game of $2/$4. Both Stacks have over $400

hero has 2s 2d in BB

Villian raises to $14 in BB.
Hero Calls.

Flops = 2c, 9c, 7d

hero bets 16
Villian Calls

Q1 - what do you think Vilian Has?

Turn = ks

hero bets $24
Villian raises to $72
Hero Calls

Q2 - What do you think Villian has now?

River = Tc ( Pot = $204)

Q3 - What should hero do now?
 
tosborn

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I check/fold. Villains betting strategy would be standard for 77, 99, or TT. I don't think that villain has KK or he would have pushed a little harder preflop but that would definately be in his range. I don't think that you can put him on a draw so a semi-bluff push here would not be out of the question.

I can't wait to see the results, but I lay this hand down if provoked.
 
ChuckTs

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Any reads on villain?
How does he percieve you as a player?

He could have called your flop bet with AK, maybe AKc...maybe he's slowplayed 99 or 77.

I think you should bet more on the turn; if he raises a strong 2/3 pot bet (which would be...like $40) then I think you can assume he's got you beat. Blagh what am I saying. If he raises your turn bet, stick him in.

As for the river, well it's sticky. The flush + straight have now filled, though JQ/J8/86 really don't fit the line...

I think we could toss out a block bet (there was a good thread about a similar hand by dbitel...), and fold to a significant raise. We could also check-call for <1/2 the pot...

I'm blathering, though. I'm interested in hearing other replies to this one...

EDIT:
I check/fold. Villains betting strategy would be standard for 77, 99, or TT. I don't think that villain has KK or he would have pushed a little harder preflop but that would definately be in his range. I don't think that you can put him on a draw so a semi-bluff push here would not be out of the question.

Check/folding is pretty weak...we've got tons of hands beat right now. Assuming he's your average too-loose player, he could have K9+, AA, though there are a bunch of hands that now have us beat...

As for KK I really don't see it very much of the time here; why would he smooth call the rag flop then raise when he hits his king??
 
tosborn

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Check/folding is pretty weak...we've got tons of hands beat right now. Assuming he's your average too-loose player, he could have K9+, AA, though there are a bunch of hands that now have us beat...

Youre right in that check/folding is weak. I play mostly SNG's and MTT and our hand is not that strong at this point. I play pretty tight, but after looking through the hand again I can't really see villain with 99 or 77. Most likely K9 or K7. As stated a push would definately not be out of the question, but I fold this hand with the limited amount of time that is given during online play. If I was playing live and had a little more time I probably would have pushed all-in.

As for KK I really don't see it very much of the time here; why would he smooth call the rag flop then raise when he hits his king??[/quote]

I agreed.
 
calibanboy

calibanboy

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OK, Heres my 1st Update:.....

Any reads on villain?
This is a new site for me. I have played this guy 100 hands. My general view of play is that that he is a solid player. (Poker Office TAG) He plays position and is $200 up with good solid play. His is a slightly above average raiser Pre flop from this small sample of hands, in line with someone playing position, SC's and PP's.

How does he percieve you as a player?
he should have a similar view of me.I am $150 up and we have both been on a table with small stacks who are trying to get rid of their money. Both have managed to take advantage of this. I had only raised/called with something of substance and was prepared for by BB to get taken (if required) and to wait for a better spot against the weaker players.

The scenario before the hand....
I had been playing this 1 table only and trying to get reads on people. He was in mid position and the first two people folded I immediately guessed he would raise standard raise. he did this. My guess was that he was doing a standard blind steal. This instinct from watching basic patterns.

Duriing play - my thoughts.
My thoughts were that he could have anything. That said the implied odds with a small PP made it worth the call.

The flop: Was a dream. My basic thought were - lets start to build the pot with a rough 1/2 pot raise. If he calls/raises - great I guess i have him with disguised hand. If he folds I have taught him a lesson about stealing my blind.

The turn: I was really pleased with. He could have Sc's (and has not hit) or a high PP. Or he might hopefully have AK. I hope he has. This is the primary reason for a build raising but fairly weak pot, I am hoping he has connected with the king or has a flush straight draw and is finding out his position by reraising. He Does re-raise.

The River: I now fear that he had hit the flush after his turn play and I am sick that I did not re-raise all in. on the turn. That said he might not have and the AK may still be the case.

I think along the lines that I could be beaten - as he must have something to have come this far. However I beat a lot of those potential hands. Thats said I am losing to a lot too. My thoughts are I need to avoid a situation where he raises big on the river as I could be folding a winning hand. I set a blocking bet of $60. He calls.

Q4: Guess what he had?

Q5: How would you have played this differently - as you do not know the result.

Q6: Do you think that any element of of play is a long term losing move?
 
ChuckTs

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The turn: I was really pleased with. He could have Sc's (and has not hit) or a high PP. Or he might hopefully have AK. I hope he has. This is the primary reason for a build raising but fairly weak pot, I am hoping he has connected with the king or has a flush straight draw and is finding out his position by reraising. He Does re-raise.

Why not reraise then? I know you say you regret it on the river, but it shouldn't be just because the third club hit. If you put him on AK or a flush draw, stick him in! (or at least reraise) He'll stack pretty often I'd guess - especially with AKc.

Q4: Guess what he had?
I think it's most probably AK/KQ. He might smooth call with 99/77 if he puts you on the flush. He could also of course have some weird hand like K9, which I see as pretty unlikely but still very possible.
Q5: How would you have played this differently - as you do not know the result.

Like I said before, I reraise the turn and most probably call a push since I'd be priced in anyways (of course hoping to see KQ/AK or a flush draw + pair)

Q6: Do you think that any element of of play is a long term losing move?

I don't particularly like calling a raise PF with 22, especially OOP. Don't think it's terrible, but rarely make the call myself. I think the thing I most likely change is the turn play, though; you're giving him a cheap turn if he's got AKc or whatever other weird combo he might hold with a flush draw.
 
calibanboy

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Quote:
Originally Posted by calibanboy
The turn: I was really pleased with. He could have Sc's (and has not hit) or a high PP. Or he might hopefully have AK. I hope he has. This is the primary reason for a build raising but fairly weak pot, I am hoping he has connected with the king or has a flush straight draw and is finding out his position by reraising. He Does re-raise.

Why not reraise then? I know you say you regret it on the river, but it shouldn't be just because the third club hit. If you put him on AK or a flush draw, stick him in! (or at least reraise) He'll stack pretty often I'd guess - especially with AKc.

I agree with everything here Chuck. Its one of the reasons for making this post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by calibanboy
Q4: Guess what he had?
I think it's most probably AK/KQ. He might smooth call with 99/77 if he puts you on the flush. He could also of course have some weird hand like K9, which I see as pretty unlikely but still very possible.


I'll tell you in my next post

Q5: How would you have played this differently - as you do not know the result.

Like I said before, I reraise the turn and most probably call a push since I'd be priced in anyways (of course hoping to see KQ/AK or a flush draw + pair)


Agreed

Q6: Do you think that any element of of play is a long term losing move?

I don't particularly like calling a raise PF with 22, especially OOP. Don't think it's terrible, but rarely make the call myself. I think the thing I most likely change is the turn play, though; you're giving him a cheap turn if he's got AKc or whatever other weird combo he might hold with a flush draw.



According to my stats The low PP call has been a big winner for me over the past year - so will stick with that. But you do need to be prepared to fold when losing and also be prepared to maximise when winning.

I totally agree about the turn bet.


Finally - thanks for your comments - its appreciated.


__________________
 
calibanboy

calibanboy

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.........And finally he had Jd 8c.

He won $324 with a straight.

To be honest I never put him on this particular hand at any time - although I did obviously fear the straight ( in general ) on the river.


An interesting Hand i thought. I am still trying to get into his head.....
 
joosebuck

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I am still trying to get into his head.....

my guess. he was stealing and wanted to show that when you raise a ragged board on his steal he's not folding. keeps you from stop&going on any ragged board+turn. by his accounts, even if you have top pair he has a great chance of outdrawing you with a disguised gutshot + 2 overs. he reps the king, and if you shove here he definetly doesn't call.

i dont dislike how you play the hand at all. if you think you can trap more money with a c/r on the flop, that's not a bad move either. im pretty sure my money goes in on the turn, though.
 
D

Dingodaddy23

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I check/fold. Villains betting strategy would be standard for 77, 99, or TT. I don't think that villain has KK or he would have pushed a little harder preflop but that would definately be in his range. I don't think that you can put him on a draw so a semi-bluff push here would not be out of the question.

I can't wait to see the results, but I lay this hand down if provoked.

wtf


3 bet turn obv, id prolly just shove.
 
A

alan1983

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.........And finally he had Jd 8c.

He won $324 with a straight.

To be honest I never put him on this particular hand at any time - although I did obviously fear the straight ( in general ) on the river.


An interesting Hand i thought. I am still trying to get into his head.....

Wow.

Im guessing by turn bet it was his plan to make a move later in the hand, when he called flop.

I think you could have won the hand there, by raising big on turn. I dont think he was chasing gutshot on flop rather than setting up a move. And oh well if he was gonna chase a 4 outers to river, then youd have played it very well and lost to a lucky suckout but i think hed have folded it on turn to a re-raise.

He saw a ragged flop, maybe put you on a TT JJ and decided to bluff representing the K.
 
D

drtofu66

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Hello, I would like your views please? I will post the result of the hand later....


Situation: Standard game of $2/$4. Both Stacks have over $400

hero has 2s 2d in BB

Villian raises to $14 in BB.
Hero Calls.

Flops = 2c, 9c, 7d

hero bets 16
Villian Calls

Q1 - what do you think Vilian Has?


AK or AQ

Turn = ks

hero bets $24
Villian raises to $72
Hero Calls

Q2 - What do you think Villian has now?

AK, hopefully not of clubs.

River = Tc ( Pot = $204)

Q3 - What should hero do now?

Hero should have raised the turn enough to get pot committed to make the river a non-issue.
 
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