full of donks

iv got to say,i played my first cardschat freeroll on bodog today and i encountered some of the biggest donks the web has to offer.player calling 2x raises in the middle position with a q 5 off and 6 8 off.6 8 i can possibly understand if he was in sm or bb or even if it was suited.i dont mind being beat but playing against donk draw outs like this with premium cards is discouraging,and for the one that played this today,you ought to be ashamed to call yourself a poker player.you are more a lottery player than anything.freerolls are a breeding ground for the lucky donk that tries to justify his bad play by saying,i won didnt i?yes sir you did,and id like to offer you a chance to play heads up any game you choose.

HU FOR (FREE)ROLLZ!

I've never seen a poker book that recommends 2x raises, assuming that you mean raising to two times big blind (i.e. min raise).

meaning 2x bb

Try 3x perhaps, or Phil Gordon suggests 2.5 times in early position, 3 times in middle, 4 times in late and 3 times when you're in the blinds. If you min raise you will have lots of people sucking out you, because you're making it cheap for them to stay in. If they want to see more cards, make them PAY!

regardless the raise,a $2 raise should get this kind of hand folded pre folp.first of all,i dont see a good poker player calling with this kind of hand unless on final table with 3 or less people in or heads up.there is no way i can be convinced these are good calling hands.the bottom line is that there is to many bad players online these days and people are patting them on the back when they donk out and beat a good player.i wont try and sugar coat my opinion and bow down to the censors.i value all opinions and will respect them,but i feel this is something that is killing the online poker experience for the better players who get discouraged after so many of these suck outs by the donks.i have been able to stay in the profit range since i started playing but only because i try and play the nl tables with bigger blinds,that dont always keep out the donks but it is fewer there than on the lower tables.im no pro and probably never will be,but i wont subject my play or money or time to people who play like this.

thanks for the tips furries.im just a little agitated over this and i know i shouldnt be,its a part of the game.its a freeroll but i take all my play serious regardless the stakes.thanks for the encouragement and gl to you.

Theres no way your ever gonna get rid of them, its good that u expressed how u felt about them donks, i hate'em as much too, but u just gotta learn how to deal wit it, and if u have patience, they will be out before ya know it lol.

just think... if it werent for the donks.... decent players like us wouldnt be able to make any money at all

You can "get rid of them", it's not good to blame your problems on other players, and the main thing to concentrate on is that you are playing every hand as well as you possibly can. We rely on weak players, that's how we make money out of poker, so I love them! Rather than whining about them, learn how to exploit them and how to make money out of them! Good luck!

well furries i wouldnt say im blaming my poker play on anyone,im just venting.i feel i play 80%of my hands as well as i can.i have lots of room for improvement.i dont need to blame anyone else,i lbame myself for not playing those certain hands better.yes i know that is where we make money,and i appreciate your outlook on things.gl

Just to clarify I am not a particularly good player myself, but by visiting this site and listening to the guys here and doing lots of reading I am becoming a better player, it's a long slow process but I am having lots of fun.

Once we can build a bankroll and move up through the levels there will hopefully be fewer calling stations along the way, we can give up the freerolls completely, and whether we win or not will be more about skill and less about flipping a coin - hopefully!

ummmm... no. a min-raise pre-flop will not kick out anyone who has anything resembling a playable hand. at just about any stakes (which should tell you that this raise should not get them to fold either). you should totally raise more. 3-4 times the big blind. especially in a freeroll, and especially if it was early in the tournament.

Yeah,
I finished 6th in the bodog freeroll. At one point early in the tourney I was down to 190 chips when my queens were beat by aces. In the freerolls I find it hard to get players to respect a preflop raise of even 3 to 4 times the bb as suggessted in the little green book. When you have a premium hand, it basically turns into a limp, call and fold if you don't hit or call and pot raise if you do, or reraise all in preflop. Which means that you change your game to accommodate the donks. (Be carefull though this could hurt your overall game if you don't change back to rational play when you're in buyin events.) If you haven't gone all in you basically have to figure out if that player is capable of making a correct bluff when a scare card comes up or if they are hoping to suck out on you. It's tuff. I would like to see how the freerollers would do at live cash games or even online ring games. but that's a freeroll for ya.

I find that the cc buyin events are much more enjoyable.

Although I have seen some pretty good play in the freerolls. But it almost is not the hands you play but the hands you don't that get you in the money in the freeroll. However, luck has a lot to do with it. "I would take luck over skill anyday. The only problem with luck is that it always runs out."

Keep in mind though that I am a certifiable donk myself. LOL

has someone told you that you are decent??

i hate donks!!! never fails i always get beat by crappy hands...seems like the crappy hands win on most poker sites....

I have not found that higher buyins, real money games or live games with "better" players eliminates poor play, mistaken play or people who read you correctly or incorrectly and showdown a better hand.

I am no expert and like many adults my age, I am expert in another field. I think lessons of learning translate across most endeavors. Thinks like "beginners luck","backing into success" apply. Right out of college I thought I was the best, I recognize that now as Hubris. I no longer have to rely on luck or ignorance to achieve the desired result.

A beginning basketball player may have an occasional excellent game but to be Michael Jordan takes time, diligence, practice, skill and heart. Most important is intelligence and discipline to hold it together and a will not given to folding in the face of upset or defeat.

When I think of greatness or excellence in any field, the mechanics are a given, it's the person who executes when tired, flustered, in the face of defeat, lesser opponents getting "lucky" is who has really mastered the game. Poker, in my view, is no different.

I have had about a month now of trying different things to improve my game - it seems like much too often, like tonight, my K high Flush (holding Ks Qs) was caught on the river by a player with As 2d. Sure he "should have folded if he rationally evaluated his hand against my bets and the board but who says he knew anything about odds, EV or anything. I can't see any benefit to me or my game by "getting mad","venting" and the like. In that situation I got just what I wanted except the outcome. If that scenario played out a thousand times - net I win.

It seems to me the mechanics of the game can be learned by anyone with average math and computation skills, but most poor players don't know, don't use the math or don't have the mental discipline to use what they know in the heat of a game.

Maybe it's me, but all things considered, I'd much rather have a table of poor players chasing 3 outers to the river than Phil Ivey, Daniel Negreanu, John Juanda, Chris Ferguson and Allen Cunningham.

"Action" Dan Harrington recently said [pp] when he is looking for a money game, he looks for players with lesser skill to increase his probability of winning because the skill level among the top pros is so comparable his advantage is reduced. I really wonder why many amateurs and beginners say the opposite?

If chasers are really the only weakness in my game, more often than not I win and can easily withstand the occasional "bad beat".

If you can't beat these players who can you beat?

Merlin333

Online poker is the new wave of play for dummies to see how bad they can play and win.Times it helps to b patience and let them get taken out then play decent poker hang in there!!

i been getting thumped at bodog trying to protect my hand. i'll overbet my made hand to chase the drawing hand away, and never fails, they stay and hit their flush, str8t, or even bottom pr for the set. you would think proper bet would be to make em pay for the draw, but overbetting at bodog is quick way for them to hit, it's odd but checking or valuebetting in this situation, seems to work better for my hand

This hits the nail right on the head. Lots of folks out there with more money than brains and it's sooooo easy to deposit online. Few of these same players will go to a live game and play the same way. (Before the barrage: note - I said 'few'. Some do.)

Why all the hatred for Donks? You should be embracing them and welcoming them and accepting them.

My thinking:
You, sir! You who called my 5x BB PFR with J4o and won with two pair vs my AA, come and be my friend. I'll write your name down so I can find you easily and we can enjoy more games together in the future.

Think about it. You're probably being result oriented with selective memory.

'Oh, I always lose. I've never won a single showdown where I was a favorite.'

OK, well unless the hand is the absolute, pure 100% nuts, there is no hand out there that is unbeatable. None. If your opponent has a chance of winning, then you will eventually lose. Not even if you're a 99% favorite to win. There is that 1% chance of someone beating you. It can happen, it will happen, and it will hurt. But you should think positive and not be so focused on the loss. Why? Because you know what 99/100 you'll be winning that hand. So, in the long run lossing 1 want (in this example) will mean nothing. And thats basically what it comes down to. Its all in the math. If you're a 70-30 favorite to win, then in the long run you will win. You might be on a losing streak now, but losing for a few days, a week, or even a month straight is such a small sample. Look back after a year or a few years and see where your stats are for a particular hand.

Another thing is, bad players is where you make the money. If everyone respected raises and knew when to fold and how to play properly, poker would be the most boring game in the world. There would be no action, unless it was AA vs KK or similar. Blinds would just be passing around the table, etc, etc. You make money by exploit peoples mistakes. Going back to the 70-30 example, say its for 10 hands: you shouldnt be bothered losing 3/10 hands because you know that you'll win 7/10 in the end. 10 hands is a small sample and you might be 4/10 wins, which might make it seem unfair but stretch that out to 100 hands, 1000 hands, 10K hands, and it'll balance out.

Well put Philthy. I play online with the donks just so I can see their poor betting patterns and exploit them later. I mean, "isn't that what poker is about?"

And Washout... I literally have it down to the minute of where you can come back after making a sandwich and play with the average number of chips and the majority of lemmings out of the way. They exit out of the tourney at an average rate of 118 per minute. Knowing this, I don't get caught up in all the pre flop maddness of donkeys thinking they are "all in experts." Which as we all know, your Pocket Aces are more likely to be busted with 4-5 coin flip players jumping all in with you.

I agree a little patience usually clears out the donks but I have to admit even the people that are calling others donks r sometimes donks themselves!!!!

Very much so, have to agree with that 100%.

When playing the freerolls, I generally wait about 20 mins - 30mins before playing them..By this time most of the donks are gone and generally the players that are left are a little more respectful of each others play. Other thn that I get a lot of laughs watching players go in on A-3 or 63 non suited. Try to get a kick out 9f it instead of letting it kick ur butt.

im pretty sure u hav donk a few,most of the donks r new players any how

I got beat out in yesterdays pokerstars freeroll I was on low stack say 800 chips on the button called all in with q 10 suited not a bad hand donk calls me with 5 3 off suited and hes only got about 2 thousand chips and he pulls a pair of 3s what a joke is this a donk?

as we all know the 1st hour in any freeroll of any large size is just plain wild. The more money in the pot at times brings out more players trying to get the miracle hand early to build a chip lead. With many taking the attitude that im going all in early and often to either make it or out cause i dont want to hang around for 3hrs to bust out by just playing good hands>


i dont care what site u play but u will see this often in a field of 200 plus

I don't believe that there are better players in the higher buy in T's.

I believe that the risk dictates the level of play.

I know I play better when the risks are higher. But, if I'm in a freeroll and the door bell rings, phone rings (Girl), approaching appointment (meeting), a good movie comes on, hungry, etc.... I'm fairly likely to donk outa the game.

If I'm inna big payoff T, and the door bell rings......... "NOBODY FRICKEN HOME....GO AWAY." And my level of play goes up accordingly. Well......... my perceived level of play.


---

Freerolls are good practise. I play them and never expect much out of them.

i usually don't even play a great hand for the first few minutes especially if there are alot in the tourney . After 30 min things cool down some. People will play 89 9 ten suited everytime and if they are the chip leader , they might call anything.

i would recomend raising 3 or 4 x so you avoid those types of scenarios

If you know as much as u think, then u should be happy and take advantage of this so called problem that u should consider an advantage......

Donks in freerolls???!!!???

Revelation!

Gee was anybody here ever a donk or a idiot playing poker ? Did anybody ever make a bad move or play and suck out a miracle ? Well the name calling and complaining comes after getting beat. I make donk moves everyday and win some and lose some. Whining and complaining is such a bad play for your game. It creates a negative mind set and your game suffers. Acceptance of bad poker players in freerolls or cash games are keys to having success in poker. Since I stop worrying about how other people were playing, and worried about my moves. My game has vastly improved.