Poker: The value of two over-cards

#1 01-02-2005, 5:22 PM

This is Carder England, a.k.a. SpaZCarD, writing my first article. This is a topic that seems to get people into situations that are hard to get out of. Hopefully we will all learn from it. One thing I have learned is that playing less than premium hands as though they are can get you into masses of trouble.

Many people love to look and see two cards such as Queen-Jack, King-Jack Jack-Ten, Queen-Ten, King-Ten in their hand. These cards look good after an hour of seeing constant Ten-Twos and such. However, many people love to play these cards from any position as well as even raise with them. This can cause for a tough lay-down, or a loss of many chips.

I'm not saying that these cards should never be played, I'm saying value your position much more than most people do. In early or mid position you could get yourself into trouble, especially with someone else playing position against you as seen below.

Pre-flop play aside, once a flop is seen, the trouble begins. For example, I have re-created a hand history for this to be easier to read.

Game #701688047 – Fake – 10/20 No Limit Texas Hold'em -
2005/01/24-21:40:02.5 (CST)
Table "123456789" (MTT) -- Seat 10 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: Player2 (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: Player3 (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: Player4 (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: Player5 (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: MainPlayer(1500 in chips)
Seat 7: Player7 (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: Player8 (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: Player9 (1500 in chips)
Seat 10: Player10 (1500 in chips)
--------------------------------------------
Player1: Post Small Blind (10)
Player2: Post Big Blind (20)
Dealing...
Dealt to MainPlayer [ Qs ]
Dealt to MainPlayer [ Js ]
Player3: Call (20)
Player4: Fold
Player5: Fold
Player6: MainPlayer Raises (40) to (60)
Player7: Fold
Player8: Fold
Player9: Fold
Player10: Fold
Player1: Fold
Player2: Folds
Player3: calls
*** FLOP *** : [ Qd 7d 2s ]
At this point, top pair seems good, right?
Player3: Check
MainPlayer: Bet (90)
Player3: Call (90)
*** TURN *** [ Qd 7d 2s ] [ 5h ]
Player3: Check
MainPlayer: Bet (100)
Player3: Call (100)

At this point you have to wonder, what is he calling on? Maybe and Ace and never hit? Maybe a pocket-pair? So you make a value-bet, knowing you have the best hand.

*** RIVER *** [ Qd 7d 2s 5h ] [ 9c ]
Player3: Check
MainPlayer: Bets (250)
Player 3: Calls
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 1030 | Board: [ Qd 7d 2s 5h 9c ]
Player3 collected 1030 (showed hand) [ Ks Qc ] (pair of queens)
MainPlayer lost 500 (showed hand) [ Qs Js ] (a pair of queens – lower kicker)

Many players do not play King-Queen very aggressively, knowing that any Ace is in a favorable position. Player3 was in early position, called the Big-Blind and called the raise. At this point, it is hard to put him on a certain hand, being that it is the very beginning of a tournament. With his just call to the river, you think you have the best hand throughout, right? Wrong, although the Jack appears nice, it is no where near a good kicker.

Imagine if he had re-raised you on the flop, but his call pre-flop cannot let you put him on two pair or trips. Do you call with your top pair? These are hard decisions for many people, even the pros, so sometimes it is best to never be in the situations in the first place.

The Queen-Jack suited does appear nice, but many people love to over-play such cards and find themselves in a hard position. Imagine being MainPlayer. It is the second hand of the tournament, and you have lost one-third of your stack. Not detrimental, but it definitely hurts.

Written By Carder England specifically for Cardschat.com
Copyright ©2004 - 2005.

#2 24-04-2005, 5:05 PM

yes. Queen,Jack will def get you in trouble, even tho i posted earlier that 10,j was one of my fav hands. i would never put myself in bad pos with it. as same with a hand like Q,j u always want to get good start with tourney not loose 2/3 stack at very begginging

#3 28-04-2005, 2:49 AM

Just last night I had QJ in BB (seat 3) seat 10 calls I call.
Flop J,9,J I was short stacked (1000) so I went all-in seat 10 calls with J,7.
Turn 3 (I'm still ahead)
River 7 (I'm out the tourney)
Over cards are good yes but they are not the world specially online as some players seem not to play "THE GAME" but "THE LUCK"
I have been schooled too many times holding over cards or high pockets by players with (stupid) low hands.

#4 03-05-2005, 12:18 AM

Hi Gang,

I have to know is poker this scientific. I have pklayed for years in the pub, ut only recently online and I do believe that the mot of it is gut instinct.

#5 07-05-2005, 4:47 PM

poker does have a lot to do with instinct...but odds with instinct. If you see the first four people in a hand throw it away and youre holding ducks...and there is a raise...there is a good chance one of them folded your out...and that you were only 1in10 to get trips on the flop anyway. LAY IT DOWN. there are a lot of players that would call and miss, and then throw it away, save your money

#6 10-05-2005, 5:04 PM

I will only play unsuited overcards for the cost of the blind

#7 12-05-2005, 2:41 AM

Position is critical. I've also found that 95% of the time the size of someones bet equals the quality of their hand more often than not post flop all-ins the person has a hand

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