WTF, proof of collusion on single table S N G @ Full Tilt, I'm startiing to get sick

...of this shit. Anyway, I started to get suspicious after it got down to the 3 of us that the big stack would only come after me, pushin' me all in with rags, etc. AND BEFORE ANYONE ASKS, YES, I HAD 2X AS MANY CHIPS AS THE SHORT STACK. - up until I got pushed out of my blinds about 10X. The big stack would never push the short stack all in. When I would raise the short stacks' blinds, the large stack would protect him by going all in. So friggin blatant.

There was also a 3rd party poker involved,observing the table. This is an excerpt from the chatbox after I got knocked out, I guess they thought that I just left. Even the observer (3rd party) says at one point "out loud" and "i don't believe you...." basically telling them to shut up and stop talking about it:


Dealer: KKasanovAA shows [6c 5h]
Dealer: raelbig shows [9s Jc]
Dealer: KKasanovAA shows a flush, King high
Dealer: raelbig shows a flush, King high
Dealer: raelbig wins the pot (1,360) with a flush, King high
raelbig: gg
Dealer: Hand #17718162528
Dealer: KKasanovAA finishes in 3rd place and wins: $9
Dealer: rightonbeat has 15 seconds left to act
Dealer: raelbig wins the pot (600)
Dealer: Hand #17718167169
rightonbeat: thanks 4 keepN me around
Dealer: rightonbeat has 15 seconds left to act
raelbig: lol
Dealer: raelbig wins the pot (300)
Dealer: Hand #17718172623
raelbig: I'm tight yo
Dealer: rightonbeat has 15 seconds left to act
rightonbeat: you are after you took me early
nomusicnoparty (Observer): took you like in your virginiyt...
Dealer: rightonbeat wins the pot (600)
Dealer: Hand #17718184049
raelbig: lol
Dealer: raelbig wins the pot (300)
Dealer: Hand #17718185818
nomusicnoparty (Observer): out loud????
Dealer: raelbig wins the pot (600)
Dealer: Hand #17718188086
nomusicnoparty (Observer): i dont believe you....
Dealer: raelbig wins the pot (600)
Dealer: Hand #17718190855
Dealer: raelbig shows [9s Js]
Dealer: rightonbeat shows [Ah Th]
Dealer: raelbig shows a pair of Jacks
Dealer: rightonbeat shows a pair of Tens
Dealer: raelbig wins the pot (1,840) with a pair of Jacks
raelbig: gg
Dealer: rightonbeat finishes in 2nd place and wins: $13.50
Dealer: raelbig finishes in 1st place and wins: $22.50
nomusicnoparty (Observer): gay
rightonbeat (Observer): gg
nomusicnoparty (Observer): gross
KKasanovAA (Observer): colluding mf ers
KKasanovAA (Observer): i'm reporting


They left as soon as I came on chat and said that, they didn't even try to defend themselves. F N' losers and cheats. I need to know who to report this to ASAP at Full Tilt?

Send an email to fulltilt support (dont think they have a separate email for fraud/collusion?) and they will investigate it further.

From what I have read and see of others, they are usually pretty good when it comes to sorting theses issues out

Wow I hope they get banned. I hate that. Contact full tilt support like the above poster said.

Where is the collusion...? Keeping the short stack around to take chips from the 2nd stack is a standard SnG strategy imo.

In regards to the chat, the "out loud" and "i don't believe you" comments were directed at the "lol" the bigstack made at the virginity comment. Also, if they were colluding, the guy would never say, "thanks for keeping me around".

I highly doubt this is collusion but good luck getting your money back if they were colluding.

I have to agree with the above..... I really don't see any collusion. In theory its smarter when you have chips to get in hands with the guys who are around your stack size, not messing too much with the shorter stacks. When you bully the short stacks you are hurting yourself by giving them a chance to double up. When you are in hands with others around the same stack size you have a chance to fully double up (or get yourself knocked out).

what was the buy in for the s n g?

Sounds like dirty poker. Dunno about collusion. He wasn't going after the short stack but that could just mean he didn't wanna get all in with him cuz he wasnt getting the cards for it... so he just stole from you.

I don't see anything wrong. Looks like standard poker and the other guy happy he got to cash. Just move on and dont waste your time.

Actually, he would and he did. After he thanked him the other guy said, "I'm tight, yo" I'm not sure of you're American but in American street slang that means , "I know what I'm doing"...so yes, there was collusion. The 3rd party poker intervened and tried to detract from the subject by talking about the virginity stuff, etc....

$5.50

HOW DARE HE USE OPTIMAL SNG STRATEGY AGAINST ME GRRRRRRRRRRR

I guess i won't deny collusion but don't know if it proves anything. Chat seams like mindless talk. Guess since I live in the midwest i am not familiar with american slang. Must be urban slang? The idea of the thrid party poker to distract seams rather impressive and elaborate. Let us know how reporting this turns out. Though useing the chat as part of your argument wont add much to your case.

Optimal according to who? I cash in the majority of the single table S n G's and I never used that strategy. My ROI is around 15% so I must be doing something right. But since everyone around here thinks they know everything about poker, I guess I should start using that "optimal" strategy and watch my ROI drop.

Why so serious? People just want to help you.

I love poker, because people think the fact that they win is proof that they do everything right.

fyp

Yeah, it's Urban slang, essentially meaning I'm on to it, I know what I'm doing, etc. If it's a group of individuals, they could be doing this in some type of "collusion ring" essentially having a 3rd party poker over see the tournanment, almost like a lookout, to make sure no one complains about the collusion, etc. They probably are on IM with each other, giving each other advice on how to proceed, etc. That's just my guess.

I think $5 S N G's are the perfect targets because more than half the players are usually casual players and wouldn't know the difference. If they targeted higher stakes, they could get discovered more easily. Not only that, if they did this 20 times a day (low number) and took the top 2 prizes each time, that's $520.00 a day gross - 100 buy in = $420.00 a day net. That's more than most mid stakes grinders average in a day, not too shabby.

Actually I was wrong, down to 13% ROI in Single Table S N Goes and this is just my stats on Full Tilt:

http://www.pokerprolabs.com/topshark...namenttype=sng



I actually do a lot better on UB but I can't get my stats from there for some reason.

This.. Well said

Oh yeah, coming back with a wise ass retort like he did is trying to help....lol....

I appreciate the kind words. I'll admit that my online cash game could use some tweaking, I'm basically break even but I make a little with RB. My live cash game is fine, been making money playing live for the past 15 years.

My single table S N' G strategy is among the best, both live and online. I've won and cashed in hundreds live and online. (More than 60% of the ones I've played in total) I make decent money in single table S N' Goes, until that stops happening, I don't need any help in that category. But maybe I could give you guys a few pointers...

OP you brought this on yourself.

I didnt want to post it but DM will I guess.

So you obviously do everything right. >_<

EDIT - Wow, nice self ownage.

Kasanova, I really hope you listen to this :

It is common human behaviour to think that they are better at something than they really are. This is the case with almost every poker player around. When you stop thinking you make all the correct decisions and start listening to people who have more experience and have shown greater profits/ winrate at similar or higher stakes, you will benefit so greatly.

Those stats are for all the sit N goes, not just single table....and a lot of them were from when I went absolutely on a tilt rampage 2 months ago, when I decided to close out my UB account....as you can see my tilt score was through the roof. IF YOU ALSO NOTICE MY ROI WAS STILL 14% - SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?? Basically, I went on tilt and started playing higher stakes and wiped out my Br.


If you want to check out my current stats (WITHIN THE LAST MONTH) on Full Tilt:

http://www.pokerprolabs.com/topshark...namenttype=sng


I don't know how to post a graph...but whatever, the link is accurate.

So your "proof" is a 31 STT sample?
You do realize thats what most STT grinder play in a single seasion, not 90days...

This, a thousand times this.

Look, I didn't just post those pics because they were funny when interspersed with the quotes (okay so that was like half my motivation but w/e), I did so because it will ultimately benefit you to realise that you're not as good as you think you are. It's not just you, almost certainly over 90% of poker players think they are better than they actually are. Even some people with Pokertracker or suchlike who can see they are breakeven/losing over hundreds of thousands of hands will try and convince themselves they are just the victims of some ridiculous bad luck and are really winning players. The sooner you learn to leave your ego behind when you sit at a poker table, review a session, open a poker book, or begin to browse a poker forum, the better off you will be.

You crack me up. I would love to play you heads up....we can even do it for play chips....best out of 7?? Let me know.

It always ends up like this huh? ok then, what stake? I doubt you can afford what I want to play but w/e

Why don't you look at the ROI instead of the graphs, genius?? My ROI was still 14% on Cereus network....what does that tell you?? Come on now, think for a second. Like I said, I went on tilt, and started donking off my BR in higher stakes.

Not only that, Top shark shows stats for ALL S N' Goes, not just single table. I am way ahead in single table S N G's both online and live.

In before the lock. And in KKing's case, in before the sweet sweet merciful lock.

We can do it for pride...lol...if you win, I'll start a thread here saying that you owned me and that I need to listen to your every word about poker if I win, you start the same thread about me. To me, that's worth more than any amount of cash I play with online....I only have about $100 in my Full Tilt account, so that's not gonna work.

We can do it tournament style or whatever you prefer.

Yeah, I do not care about pride or what people think about me. I am not going to waste time if money is not involved.

It tells me you can beat super-micro stakes SNGs but can't beat micro-stakes SNGs. Next question?

Look, let's go back to the OP. If the big stack is playing effective poker it's in his interest to try and accumulate as many chips as possible. He knows that the short stack is going to have to make a move sooner rather than later, so pushing the shortest stack around may well be counter-productive. He also knows that the second-shortest stack is likely to be waiting for the shortest stack to bust (this is more readily prevalent in bubble situations but also applies when ITM). Therefore, by far the best way for the big stack to accumulate even more chips (all other things being equal) is to go after the second largest stack.

Whan you raise the button 3-handed with a middling stack and the big stack to your immediate left you're likely to be raising with a pretty wide range, and the big stack knows that if shoved on you will only be able to call with a tiny portion of that range (assuming that stack sizes dictate that he has fold equity if he shoves) because of the presence of the short stack (who will invariably fold and hope you call and bust unless he wakes up with a strong hand).

Never seen that site before. Looks like i blow full tilt which i knew. Any similar site that has bodog stats. Been doing decent there.

OP fails in so many ways... I could point out a few but I feel bad so I won't. This will probably be ignored or met with a "What? I crush SnGs so my way to play is the best" or something like that. OP, if you have an interest in profiting, I would listen to others in this thread.