This will cause some heated debates

Ace rags.........6 through 9 are rags, A-5 or A-10 are fine to see flops and even call small raises with if the A-5 is suited. I would love to hear yalls input on this? agrre or disagree and why?

I'll take A 6 through A 9 over your A2 through A5 suited every time.

b/c high card strength is better than just being able to make a small straight and your suitedness doesn't add much to the value of your hand.

I think you would have to give more detail then that. Position? Limpers? NL? FL?

Agreed. Although I have a terrible habit of calling ace - anything suited because I am flush sucker.
Other than that, I tend to aim for a higher kicker with my ace.

What? Are you for real?, come on, A/2 through A/5 suited can make straights flushs, even SF'S, but can A/6 through A/9 make, nothing, and then A/10 is big for many reasons as it is able to make royals, and straights also

I can point to 5 or 6 significant changes in my game that improved my overall success greatly.

Very near the very top of that list is learning to throw away A-rag. It is a nothing hand, and if I was gonna be loose, I would rather be loose with 56o, than A7.

Im sorry I should have been more clear.....In pre flop status if my whole cards are A-6,7,8,9 unsuited, I fold to any bets. A-2,3,4,5 suited I will call up to a certain point. A-10,J,Q,K suited or not I will call to a point.

Ace - anything against to unpaired random cards are the fav preflop.

Playing these hands depend on alot of factors.

Personally I'll call with them but if someone raises, Im Out !
unless its a very small raise and Im in the blinds.

Its your to play but I like A-akq10 suited and unsuited any position, A 9 8 7 6 suited & unsuited Mid and late position, and A5 4 3 2 suited late only. My favorite hand is the AK. rags to some but diamonds in the rough for me.

as a heart attack...i'm ahead preflop with any A 9- A6 over an A2-A5 suited...

obviously this may change given the board texture...but if i were to run a few thousand hands with you all in preflop and i choose my A9 over your A5suited for example...statistically i'll come out ahead.

to add, there's a simple term here that comes in to play here....

domination

Don't you just hate it when you both have ace junk and there junk ends up hitting .

No but for real though, I know how you feel since I usually have better then A junk, when in a coin flip and there junk ends up hitting against my AK/AQ/AJ even, but that's poker what can u do but get in good and come out screwd

Ace rag, which to my mind is A,2-9, is purely a situational play. Even A 10 is questionable.

This is what I mean.................
Hand #56227423-22 at 215pmFreeW-053 (No Limit tournament Hold'em)
Started at 19/Aug/08 14:53:31

marvelous24 is at seat 0 with 4040.
Oztradomis is at seat 1 with 2495.
yarddog7 is at seat 2 with 7470.
r2c0013 is at seat 3 with 2775.
stinger_222 is at seat 4 with 2790.
hansenjim is at seat 5 with 2860.
CoVeS84 is at seat 6 with 7535.
luckyhands777 is at seat 7 with 250.
Sooner_Ftball is at seat 8 with 950.
Cowboy8112 is at seat 9 with 2730.
The button is at seat 9.

yarddog7 posts the small blind of 30.
r2c0013 posts the big blind of 60.
yarddog7: -- --
r2c0013: -- --
stinger_222: -- --
hansenjim: -- --
CoVeS84: -- --
luckyhands777: -- --
Sooner_Ftball: -- --
Cowboy8112: Kd 4s
Pre-flop:

stinger_222 calls. hansenjim folds. CoVeS84 calls.
luckyhands777 folds. Sooner_Ftball calls.
Cowboy8112 folds. yarddog7 calls. r2c0013 folds.

Flop (board: 9d 3h 8h):

yarddog7 checks. stinger_222 checks. CoVeS84 bets
300. Sooner_Ftball folds. yarddog7 calls.
stinger_222 calls.
Turn (board: 9d 3h 8h 6c):

yarddog7 checks. stinger_222 goes all-in for 2430.
CoVeS84 calls. yarddog7 folds.
Tournament all-in showdown -- players show:

stinger_222 shows Td 7s.
CoVeS84 shows As 7h.

River (board: 9d 3h 8h 6c Qc):

(no action in this round)


Showdown:

stinger_222 has Td 7s 9d 8h 6c: straight, ten high.
CoVeS84 has As 7h 9d 8h Qc: ace high.

Hand #56227423-22 Summary:

No rake is taken for this hand.
stinger_222 wins 6060 with straight, ten high.

OK ?

I don't get it cowboy, are you one of the two players here ?

What exactly is your point so we can help.

To begin with the player with A,7 had absolutely nothing. NOTHING!

Stinger had the NUTS,, COves84 had an open ended straight,,, FOLD.

Bad play with A,7,,,,,,NEXT!

a-x play also depends on what your goal is in a hand i think. if you have suited a-x its fine to limp in or call a small raise...if you hit the flop you can make good money from it...if you miss completely then you can simply fold at a small loss of chips. however if you have ace-face then you may want to take on the role of being the aggressor, which still depends almost entirely on position you are in.

I'll fold A-6 through A-9 about every time. I will limp in while playing late position with A-2 through A-5. I will raise with A-10 through A-A to get heads up with one other player.

I don't like playing two pocket cards that have just a slim chance of being used together to make a great hand. A-6 through A-9 os has not chance unless the flop comes a full house or two pair, which is very slim.

No, I wasnt in the hand.....but the A rag was the point I was making
and after he lost he stayed at the table and moaned and groaned for 10 min about Donkys

if you do not regularly(ish) fold AJ and AQ in cash games you are likely to lose money on these hands.

With all these hands mentioned, Raising is very often better than calling.

As muckets says - they are all situational

Yep


---

What naruto said! And dj!

Agreed - once you learn to fold these preflop without even a thought your games can only improve

While reading this thread, I had this hand in a SNG. Seems Ace-rag worked for this guy.

PokerStars Game #19742277302: Tournament #103118484, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/08/19 - 16:40:58 (ET)
Table '103118484 3' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: simisumi (1500 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 2: davidoff0024 (1620 in chips)
Seat 3: Eassy-E (1480 in chips)
Seat 4: BEmmons24 (1400 in chips)
Seat 5: Dj Nojokes (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: roimarge (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: djgolfcan (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: Kaaalimero (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: moose 765 (1500 in chips)
Eassy-E: posts small blind 10
BEmmons24: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to djgolfcan [Ac Ts]
Dj Nojokes: calls 20
roimarge: folds
djgolfcan: calls 20
Kaaalimero has timed out
Kaaalimero: folds
Kaaalimero is sitting out
moose 765: folds
simisumi: folds
Kaaalimero has returned
davidoff0024: raises 80 to 100
Eassy-E: folds
BEmmons24: folds
Dj Nojokes: calls 80
djgolfcan: calls 80
*** FLOP *** [Qd 9h 7h]
Dj Nojokes: checks
djgolfcan: bets 200
davidoff0024: calls 200
Dj Nojokes: folds
*** TURN *** [Qd 9h 7h] 7♠
djgolfcan: checks
davidoff0024: bets 200
djgolfcan: calls 200
*** RIVER *** [Qd 9h 7h 7s] 9♦
djgolfcan: bets 300
davidoff0024: raises 300 to 600
simisumi has returned
djgolfcan: calls 300
*** SHOW DOWN ***
davidoff0024: shows [As 9c] (a full house, Nines full of Sevens)
djgolfcan: mucks hand
davidoff0024 collected 2330 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2330 | Rake 0
Board [Qd 9h 7h 7s 9d]
Seat 1: simisumi folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: davidoff0024 (button) showed [As 9c] and won (2330) with a full house, Nines full of Sevens
Seat 3: Eassy-E (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: BEmmons24 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Dj Nojokes folded on the Flop
Seat 6: roimarge folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: djgolfcan mucked [Ac Ts]
Seat 8: Kaaalimero folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: moose 765 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Ace-rag is favorite against a random hand. Guess what? At a full table, you aren't playing against random hands. You are playing against hands other players have deemed worth playing. You will often find yourself up against a bigger ace. That means you might as well be playing with just one card.

Anything worse than AJ, I'm tossing in most situations.

I agree, ace rag is a sucker hand. What do you do when you flop an A? Lose a lot of chips. Thats in full ring, but even in 6 man it is weak. Position, or HU makes a difference, also M factor, but most of the time it is a trash hand.

BTW dj please list the other 5 changes...

I love Ace-Rag in the right situation because so many people overplay a bigger ace. I have been doing ok with this in tournaments, but a cash game I don't know because I don't play them.

you just keep playing any ace, any paint, and/or any two suited...and please let me know which tables you're on. )

While reading this thread, I had this hand in a SNG. Seems Ace-rag worked for this guy.


even a blind squirl will sometimes find a nut

Personally if it's not Ace-Face it's probably going into the muck. I can't stand hitting my ace and drawing to 3 outs. Of course there are exceptions, but generally I'm mucking any Ace with no paint. Even A10is no good against a raise since you could be crushed. BTW A9 is my least favorite hand, because if you hit your ace it may be second best and how often do you get a 9 high flop to hold up (same for any lower ace).

I learned how to throw away A rag and my game has improved since then

Ok, so there are alot of REAL poker players here, Where the hell are you when I sit down at a table....lol. I have been at ultimatebet for almost a week and 27th is my best finish

play the weak ace to lose money.

if you raise: usually a stronger ace then u will call or RR u....then what? or a PP decides to RR or shove on u and u have no idea what he is holding. the ace rags are better off left alone. suited is only slightly better because u can draw to the nut flush but if u know the odds of flopping a fd ure not gonna play them very often.

if u call:the ace comes on the flop and ure usually dominated. the small pair makes a set when u hit ure ace. u hit ure weak kicker and someone has ovrpair. u make 2nd or 3rd pair and someone makes top pair. if ure hand reaches showdown everyone sees that ure playing ace rag.

overall i think u should fold the weak aces at least 85% of the time.

A single ace player , Ace rag, is a SAP.

Waitaminute. You play ace-rag in the hopes of hitting two-pair against a better ace?

Like some have been saying Ace rag is terrible in general. If you can get in cheaply(ie a bunch of limpers and you are blinds or button) then calling suited aces is profitable I would guess but playing these hands is a bad idea for most beginners. If you are playing these hands in late position the do so as a semi bluff and raise or reaise it up, calling is so terrible.

suited connectors are better than Ax not because they are easier to play(they really are not IMO) its because you can have well conceled hands. Ax is a pretty obvious hand and you are going against a big ace pretty often.

True, you will come out ahead, but the likelihood your kicker will play drops dramatically from A9 down. From ~5:2 A9/Ax down to ~3:2 A6/Ax this isn't your typical 3:1 domination.