Why donkey play wins.

I have decided you can't beat the donkeys in a freeroll because there are just too darn many of them. While you are waiting for a decent hand, they are going all in against each other. When you finally get a good hand and push, you get three callers, but they each have you out-stacked by 3-6x. Maybe you win once, but they keep coming back and coming back and coming back.

What do you prefer to play in a 10,000 player MTT of solid players, who always fold to your reraise and bluff your medium hands off the pot?

No, I prefer to have a smaller percentage of donkeys, say only 50% instead of 90%

Hm actually donks should be welcome to your table. The chance of they losing chips to you is much better.

I just posted a thread of poker model on this forum. If you read it you can see even the donks are having a fair share of their lucks! You are, believe it or not, flipping a coin not better than 51:49 against the donks every hand.

You can try these:

(1) Play tighter preflop
(2) Fold a medium hand in a draw-heavy board (unless you are drawing to the nuts)
(3) Bet / Raise more when you do have something

p.s. that piggy clip is great. I didn't know pigs also wiggle their tails when they are happy.

You kidding?

no matter what tourny u play or whatever cash game u sit at there will be a donky.donkies are the reason that ppl make huge somes of money in poker.u may lose to them in freerolls and low by in tournies but in the higher buy in events they will fall as there are much better players playing

Thats your problem.

Its impossible.

The problem with playing multi way pots with donkeys, which are probably very very likely, is that for each person, the likelihood of getting sucked out on increases and since donks don't know the meaning of "fold", then you're screwed when playing against donks who have little or nothing to lose, for example in low stakes or in freerolls.

Playing in MTT tourneys requires a tremendous dose of luck. It is actualy very common to get knocked out by a bad beat, by a good player or not. You can visit poker pro's blogs and see how often they get knocked out of a tourney. They almost do nothing wrong, but only, what, 5% of them go to the final table.

The donkeys always seem to drop lucky. AA all in and get a call with a donkey with 92 and 995 drops on the flop. It's not funny anymore.

I'm probably one of the biggest preachers of "Kill all Donky's" but the reality of it is (as has been stated) with out them you stand NO chance. Poker is a game of chance and luck as much as it is skill. Continue to get your money in with the best of it and you will come out ahead of them eventually.

Honestly playing freerolls you need to also be a Donky at the start, maybe a bit more selective but a Donky just the same. If you're playing the best cards of your life you still aren't going to have much of a stack without a few 'lucky' doubles early. Cards don't always fall in your favor and the 'lucky' guy at the beginning is going to have a stack that will be difficult to challenge waiting for pocket A's.

Thank you for linking that it was far enough back that I would have missed it.

Well said.

Thank you. When will you people realize that if there were 999 donkeys plus you you would still lose the majority of the time, but would have the best chance out of all players to win. If you play against 999 people of your skill level, your chances drop to 1/1000 = 0.1%. If you're playing against people better than you? Forget it, it ain't gonna happen. If you're playing donkeys you could possibly have a 1% chance, which is still VERY unlikely, but better than if you were playing players of your skill level.

ya having a junk load of donkeys kills tournies cuz ther r too many that will get lucky and beat u, but ya its good to have them in the game to take their chips as long as the number isnt too high

Did you not read my earlier post? You get knocked out by donkeys because of the fact that there are so many of them. If there are hundreds of donkeys, odds are ONE of them will beat you. If there are hundreds of quality players, odds are MUCH HIGHER that ANY of them will beat you. For every donkey you replace with a quality player you are taking away your edge. Sure in a huge tourney your odds of cashing are low no matter what, but wouldn't you rather face people who will put their money in on a draw (meaning the odds favor you, unless they're calling with like an open-ended straight flush draw with 2 overs, in which case even a pro would call that) than people who can read you well enough to force you to suck out to win a tourney? I'd rather face 20 80%-20% scenarios than 20 50%-50% scenarios even if in the first scenario I'm only a little over 1% to survive the 20 80%-20% scenarios, I'm .0009% to in 20 50%-50%'s in a row. Which would you pick?

Why they win? They are too lucky with the rivers

I don't mind the donkeys, really. It's just the dumb luck when I get a decent hand against em is what I cant stand. Then they streak, catching river after straight, after flush, making them seem unbeatable at times.

Sounds like a believer in the schooling theory.

I can see both points in this argument. On the one hand obviously the stats relating to improving your chances of winning if there are more donks, etc. makes sense. But I think that is referring to poker. What the OP is saying and where I agree with him to a large extent, is that what we are witnessing is the birth of the true start-to-end donkament, whereby the winner will be he that wins the most coinflips, any skill is probably actually a handicap because of the amount of 15xBB pf's you won't call due to rationality.

Think about it, yes the winner of a tournament is the one who gets the luckiest for the most part. But if you were to play 1000 tourneys in a row, the people with multiple wins would be the people who play smart and get their money in with the best of it.

If you're ahead of someone who raises 15xBB PF, you are making a bad play by folding. If you can get someone to fold a better hand by raising 15xBB, you are the better player for that hand. The best players will be able to get their money in when they have the best shot to win.

I have witnessed the birth , they are among us . aggression aggression aggression , every hand willing to risk it all on a coin flip. you either go with the coin flip or let them run over you every hand. you can wait and wait for that good hand , but by the time you get it , and double up on them , you haven't hurt their stack and they just keep coming back.

how many times have you been at a table with someone you think is a donkey , but he is the one with the most money.?

but thats poker folks , if you can't stand the heat , get out of the kitchen. we shall overcome.

Donks are everywhere!

They need to be shot and learn how to PLAY poker...

They should also learn there is a fold button too...

Look, you are kind of preaching to the converted, but a coin flip is a coin flip and you can still lose and get dumped out even if you start way ahead. Sure you can call the 15XBB if you think you are ahead, you just got to be aware that your opponent is going to push on the flop pretty much no matter what comes down. And if you are in a multiway pot then be prepared for EVERYONE going all-in. The turn and river are just a formality we have to go through once everyone has smashed their chips into the middle to decide who wins.

First off you don't click the link on aliengenius's post and READ what he says untill it makes sense then may I suggest you take up checkers.

You won't beat the donks by being a donk.

It really kills me(kills me in a haha way) how so many players read a few books on poker and all of a sudden when their opponents don't play like a pro they freak out, go off their game and get wiped out by lesser players. Or should I say "supposedly" lesser players.

There is no exactly right way to play poker. Poker is so unique and situational and based on perceptions that there is no such thing as a perfect game. Folks who have that expectation are doomed to playing themselves insane. Or at least to the poor house.

To tell you the truth I have been playing winning poker for over 35 years and I have yet to read my first book on the subject. Yes i have read some blogs and articles on situations that interest me but thats it. I have often wondered if not having a bunch of preconceived "how to play" strategy's dancing in my head allows me the freedom to just play my game without a bunch of sometimes conflicting highly situational advice that ends up causing me to go against instinct and reads. Maybe im wrong but poker to me has always been about perception and control through manipulation and not so much #'s and technique.

talk about running off on a tangent and into the ditch... I'll quit before I start making sense.