Why do shortstackers play deep tables......?

#1 16th August 2008, 11:57 AM

I ask one nearly every time i run into a 20BB'er on a deep table. I know its riggiggity stated that ss'ers are missing a portion of their brain in one of his vids... and the more i run into them the more i begin to believe him.

For one, i believe i have a better idea of how to profitably play the SS (without ever doing it) than most of them do.

And also note that this is not completely a complaint, as they are very predictable, moreso a legitimate question.

#2 16th August 2008, 7:10 PM

Because they don't have enough money for the level you're at but they're too proud to go play micro stakes.

#3 16th August 2008, 7:18 PM

some of the time, they are hit-and-run merchants, bringing a ss to the table, waiting for that 'special' one hand, then going all-in and hoping to double up. As ss, they know there's a good chance they will get a call.

#4 16th August 2008, 7:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KerouacsDog

hit-and-run merchants,

H.A.R.M.

#5 16th August 2008, 7:30 PM

Short stackers play at all levels, but most are just afraid to lose a full buy in.

When I play short I look for tables with full stacks. I know most of the other short stacks are bad (which helps my image when I play short), but the 40-60 BB stacks don't seem to be as willing to pay me off as the full stacks, probably because I'm representing a larger proportion of their stack, and the reason that they're playing with 40-60 is because they're also afraid to lose.

#6 16th August 2008, 7:32 PM

Don`t underestimate your opponents. Just because they don`t play the way you think is correct, doesn`t automatically mean they don`t know what they are doing.

Try reading Ed Miller or Rolf Slotboom on short-stack strategy.

#7 16th August 2008, 7:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABorges

Because they don't have enough money for the level you're at but they're too proud to go play micro stakes.

This is the dumbest answer i have ever heard. Egon Towst is right on in his answer. I am a cronic hit and run merchant and always will be.

#8 16th August 2008, 7:41 PM

when i say "deep" tables i mean the ones where you may buy in for 200BB's. I know what shortstackers are......

My question is if they are buying in for 20BB's anyway why don't they just stick to the 100BB max tables rather than the deep ones. (don't know if pokerstars offers deep tables, maybe thats where the confusion lies.)

#9 16th August 2008, 7:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egon Towst

Don`t underestimate your opponents. Just because they don`t play the way you think is correct, doesn`t automatically mean they don`t know what they are doing.

Try reading Ed Miller or Rolf Slotboom on short-stack strategy.

Card Player Magazine - The Virtues of Playing the Short Stack by Ed Miller

Miller talks about two advantages of playing a short stack -- avoiding mixed-stack play and fold equity without risk.

#10 16th August 2008, 7:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMuckets

This is the dumbest answer i have ever heard. Egon Towst is right on in his answer. I am a cronic hit and run merchant and always will be.

if it makes a regular profit, nothing wrong with it. If it is a loose table with lots of big stacks then the chances are when you do get your big hands you will get called and hopefully double up

It isnt necessarily a hit and run tactic, (more than one way to skin a cat) just gives you a cheaper buyin and once you win a few hands you will be playing level stakes

#11 16th August 2008, 7:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katymaty

(more than one way to skin a cat)

< roundcat cowers in corner behind sofa >

#12 16th August 2008, 7:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by l Love Beer

My question is if they are buying in for 20BB's anyway why don't they just stick to the 100BB max tables rather than the deep ones.

If playing short-stack, your ideal table is one where most (or all) of the other players have you comfortably covered.

In those circumstances, you can successfully trap players who do not pay you attention or respect because they think you weak or insignificant, based on your stack size.

#13 16th August 2008, 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by l Love Beer

when i say "deep" tables i mean the ones where you may buy in for 200BB's. I know what shortstackers are......

My question is if they are buying in for 20BB's anyway why don't they just stick to the 100BB max tables rather than the deep ones. (don't know if pokerstars offers deep tables, maybe thats where the confusion lies.)

? At Tilt the deep stack tables you can only buy in for 50 BBs, as far as I see. To get below that you'd have to lose some.

And I don't know if short stack strategy works with 50 BBs, even if everyone else is sitting at 200.

#14 16th August 2008, 8:14 PM

Well if there really is a table with max 200 BBs and min still 20 BBs, it'd be the perfect table for ssing. The nature of deep stack poker is going to bring a lot more preflop action, with larger bet sizes, more 3 and 4-bets, and thus it will be much easier for the short stack to simply sit back and wait for a hand to get it in with.

#15 16th August 2008, 9:41 PM

To someone sitting with 200bb a SS shoving with 20bb looks so much smaller (only 10% of his stack), therefore hes more likley to call with a wider range of hands, therefore increasing the potential money for the SS. Thats how i see it.

#16 16th August 2008, 10:16 PM

I wouldn't be quick to call a ss a hit and run merchant. The main reason this is done ( at least why I do it) is bank roll management. I buy into 10/25 with $10. If I have a br of $50, this will allow for a hard down swing, versus me buying in with $25, and losing my whole stack in 1 hand. If I bust out, I still have 4 more buy ins vs 1 more buy. If I had $12, I would rather have the nuts vs a large stack than a stack equal to mine.

#17 16th August 2008, 11:41 PM

I like to play short stack sometimes in cash games as it helps me develop a different style of play. I like to mix it up all the time and as I am most profitable in Tourneys, I practice short stack for that, so when I get into trouble I know how to play.

I also like to sign into tables with weird amounts of cash like $26.75... It makes it look like you are playing with your full bankrole and people think you are a donk. I like it when people think I don't have a clue and I try to keep this image as long as possible.

#18 17th August 2008, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajrobin

To someone sitting with 200bb a SS shoving with 20bb looks so much smaller (only 10% of his stack), therefore hes more likley to call with a wider range of hands, therefore increasing the potential money for the SS. Thats how i see it.

But most good ssers aren't shoving preflop, they're either shoving a raise or else raising preflop and pretty much shoving the flop no matter what.

#19 17th August 2008, 1:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illkrillz

I wouldn't be quick to call a ss a hit and run merchant. The main reason this is done ( at least why I do it) is bank roll management. I buy into 10/25 with $10. If I have a br of $50, this will allow for a hard down swing, versus me buying in with $25, and losing my whole stack in 1 hand. If I bust out, I still have 4 more buy ins vs 1 more buy. If I had $12, I would rather have the nuts vs a large stack than a stack equal to mine.

This is entirely false, sorry. If you are playing shortstack correctly, you should be getting your money in much more as coin flips or marginal edges, thus have higher variance. You should still have a similar BR to play full stacked as you should short-stacking. If you want to determine the actual BR you need you should figure out your standard deviation and do the calculations (there should be BR calculators where you input risk of ruin and such) with short stack, but I think it's similar to full stacked.

#20 17th August 2008, 1:41 AM

i agree with zach

#21 17th August 2008, 6:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illkrillz

I wouldn't be quick to call a ss a hit and run merchant. The main reason this is done ( at least why I do it) is bank roll management. I buy into 10/25 with $10. If I have a br of $50, this will allow for a hard down swing, versus me buying in with $25, and losing my whole stack in 1 hand. If I bust out, I still have 4 more buy ins vs 1 more buy. If I had $12, I would rather have the nuts vs a large stack than a stack equal to mine.

If you have a bankroll of $50, then you shouldn't be playing with $10 at a table. If you are going to play with $10, then you should be at a 0.05/0.10 table or a $50 table.

Short stack strategy means playing with a stack that you can get all your money in preflop or on the flop and denying your opponents implied odds to call your preflop raise set mining or with connectors.

Using in between sizes you lack the advantages of both short stack or deep stack play.

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