The Wheel - most profitable hand?

Hello,

Someone at the casino has told me that The Wheel wins most money, and one of the reasons is that if you hold something like 25, and the board is A43 and the opponent has AA, you have him shredded.

Is there any site with statistics on money won per final hand? Is there any validity in the claim about The Wheel being most profitable?

Many thanks, ukn742

Lol, sounds like bs to me

Most profitable compared to what anyway? For me, sets are more profitable than straights (over 50K hands) because they are so well disguised.

The example you gave is silly anyway - if you are against a player that has any clue whatsoever he will raise hard and 3-bet preflop with AA, and if you are not a complete fish you will fold 25, so the situation would hardly ever happen in reality.

in Omaha8

Maybe in O8, but definitely not in Holdem. a flopped wheel is ahead, but it's still around 30% to lose against AA. The board just has to pair and you're done for. Not to mention, playing hands like that will lose you more money in the long run.

Sounds to me like this person was trying to encourage you to play a hand like this for his profit, not yours!

What absolutehamm above said is right on the money--yours that is.

Listen to baudib - the guy must have been talking about O8.

I won't start talking about O8 starting hand requirements here (since it's covered in the strategy section+ I'm no O8 expert myself) only so much:

You should be very happy to have hands like AA23 (best double suited but rainbow will do) preflop so that you have a great shot at a scoop (winning both HI+LOW).

A wheel A2345 will definately at least chop for the best low hand and often win hi+low so yeah it's good to have it.

You know, I think I'll not plan to bet 2 5 often. Seems like in the long run your apt to lose a lot of antes! Yes, disguised hands are fun, and may pay big when they work out, but not necessarily a great strategy for becoming a competitive player.

I think most might be mis interpreting what OP means, of course we know a wheel doesn't make the "most" money but I assume OP is in reference to actually getting people of hands and getting big pots all in on the flop, people won't ever (rightly so) fold any decent over pair, even middle pairs on boards like that. It's so difficult in most cases to put someone on a flopped wheel and people with A,10+ or any over cards even will get their chips in the middle and pairs like 8'8s+ are never ever folding unless they suspect villian is holding a bigger pair and slow playing. A lot of the time, people will call of a stack with any over cards to the board as most villians can well be shoving any open ended/flush draws etc with over cards so yes, boards like this "can" generate a hefty big pot on the flop because they assume people miss this sort of flop everytime that's why flopped wheels "can" and "do" quite often create a huge pot on the flop.

I guess it's is what context you mean "making the most money" determines that, but I understand what the guy meant in a way. A flopped wheel vs anyones over pairs, flush draws, sets etc are always getting their money in so in terms of biggest flop pots I guess it's possible because you only ever get such big pots with big pocket pairs vs big pocket pairs on the flop with a sort of "dryish" board like this. Most times your over pairs are always good..so yeah I kind of understand what the guy means in a way.

I guess it depends on the player, players like Phil Ivey can make any two cards, even 7,2 be profitable just because of his style of play, noone can ever really put him on a hand and he's comfortable shoving with any two cards if he thinks he can get a fold from a weak pair for example.

If you can actually play 2,5 vs the right player on the right boards and in postion etc, then yeah it can be profitable. If you can rep a certain hand in certain spots then it can be, but you need to be somewhat well skilled and best of all, knowing exactly your villians range and what he can fold too for example and of course your reads on what he may be holding.

I think he was asking for an opinion,, not a judgement of who was going to play thay kind of hand. just my thoughts

its seems its possible to me for the mere fact that if you hit good on a rag flop that completes the wheel with anything but an ace in your holding (such as 2 5, or 3 4, or any) that you can extract alot of money since your opponent will most likely not put you on calling preflop raises with baby cards.

How often will that be though ?

You won't hit the miracle wheel on flop often enough to make it profitable but will put yourself in awkward drawing situations with gutshots or oesd on flop more often.

For me trying to hit a wheel by calling preflop raises with connected rags is spew.

Pretty sure I like those odds (& because obviously AA is never folding which makes it even better).

note to OP: avoid any advice from 'someone at the casino' in the future.

So after reading this post it got me to thinkin' (< oh-oh).
I just fired up a priv.tourney, take down the first pot I play & then 2 hands later what am I dealt in UTG+1?? Yup... you guessed it, the monster 32o. Of course I raise it up... BB calls... & a simple c-bet takes it down!
I'm never folding it from now on!

I wasn't saying that I wouldn't want to be in that position. Just meaning that it doesn't justify playing 5-2/5-3/4-2/etc with the hopes that you will get that flop and also be up against a set of Aces.

I'm glad you didn't include 32o in that!!!

Well obviously.... that is teh nuts

Wish I'd saved the HH (or a screenshot) for this one....
I tried out the ol' 42o a bit later. Tournament play... blinds were 50/100. Reasonably tight player raises to 300 from eMP.... with 42o & both of us ~50bb's deep I decide to 3bet on the big side to '924' (< note the bet size.. '2' '4')... & villain calls??? (but we have position & more importantly we have the 42o !!!!!).
Flop comes 6-4-2 rbo, villain checks. Pot is ~2,000, we lead out 1,042 (< not wanting to give up our hand here, lol)... villain crai, we call.. he shows 'JJ'... trn '5'.. river '3'.. & we chop
'Unlucky' on our part & will defintely be including the 42o in our arsenal, but more so the 32o as I think it's even more disguised when we hit.

A wheel is more disguised than a high card straight but seeing 3 connected on the board will hold back betting in a ring game. A set is always disguised and if there is an A or K on board it usually means someone has high pair high kicker or top two pair and that is where the money is won with any set.