What do you think of this laydown by Hellmuth?

#1 29th March 2010, 1:57 AM

Good laydown or bad? What do you think and why?

http://www.bestpokermoments.com/2010...great-laydown/

#2 29th March 2010, 2:15 AM

There shouldn't have been the chance for Roland to draw out his set, because I would have re-raised Roland's post-flop raise to maybe three times his bet and this may sound like throwing chips at the pot, but it is paying for information, and it would be up to Roland to bluff re-re-raise you.

Phil had a hand worth pushing with, and I would have pushed with it, so, I feel it was Phil's fault that Roland drew out, and was allowed to take control of the betting and keep Phil from raising, claiming his free cards as he went.

#3 29th March 2010, 2:53 AM

q5s worth pushing with?

#4 29th March 2010, 3:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riverdogg71

q5s worth pushing with?

wat?

#5 29th March 2010, 3:18 AM

Phil reads better than a librarian. Awesome play from the 11 bracelet winner. He's an amazing player...If he was just not the Brat that he acts like I would like him more.

#6 29th March 2010, 3:26 AM

Lol he has '11' on his cap. What a douche

#7 29th March 2010, 3:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffLacey

Lol he has '11' on his cap. What a douche

I think those are roman numerals ...He is Phil Helmuth jr...

#8 29th March 2010, 4:34 AM

Shows how disciplined Phil Hellmuth is that's why he is an 11 time bracelet winner.

#9 29th March 2010, 7:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The PoolBoy

I think those are roman numerals ...He is Phil Helmuth jr...

No,it's eleven...for his bracelet count.

#10 29th March 2010, 12:41 PM

riverdogg71,

If you had read my post properly, you might have noticed that I was referring to Phil pushing, post flop, with top pair and an overcard.

Why would anyone even call with q,5?

Please read my posts properly in future, as this was my first post and I was just trying to add something, but feel already that I am wasting my fingers on this forum.

If it is your sole aim to degenerate every post with snappy criticisms, based on misinformation, then I am in the wrong place. I play real poker for real money and make a living from it, and have done for some time.

Anyway, a simple, "sorry" would suffice, but I can guess what's going to happen here- let's hope I'm wrong!

And to the rest of you, where in the topic question does it ask for opinions on Phil Hellmuth's attire? I know it doesn't matter, and you are free to post your thoughts and feelings, but to a newcomer, it doesn't advertise a good poker forum to me, where a good topic can be expanded upon, and maybe someone somewhere could even learn a little from it, myself included- there are no masters in this game.

#11 29th March 2010, 1:03 PM

Geeze Trouserpipe, Sounds like after 2 post you already have this forum figured out. How about lighten up some and enjoy the forum rather than coming in and setting your rules for us to follow in future post.

#12 29th March 2010, 2:09 PM

I cant see the video...its just loading and loading... :-/

#13 29th March 2010, 2:44 PM

Well it was definitely a good laydown by Phil, obviously, on the river... and Knowing all of the cards in play, Phil could have have pressed the flop; and then the turn if need be; but at that point he did not know what he was up against and he was thinking his opponent could have been on an overpair, or even mid-sized suited connectors (89 anyone?). I think Phil played this hand about as good as he could have.

#14 29th March 2010, 4:34 PM

Great laydown, indeed !
The blinds are 1000/2000 (as we have 13000 in the pot after PH raised to 6000 and De Wolfe at BB calls 4000).
PH has Q10 suited, and his raise is... a PH's move in middle position.
When De Wolfe calls (witt pocket 5's), PH cannot know what his opponent has. The flop with 10 9 9 doesn't help him, because DW bets 6000 first. PH calls immediatly but he doesn't know if he leads at this moment.
The two players check the turn (3 wich brings nothing new on the board).
The river appears with a 5 wich gives a FullHouse to DW.
The pot is 25000 and DW bets now 20000 ! wow ! what can he have ?
Too many hands can beat PH (any over PP, any X9, any 10 with higher kicker...)
I don't think PH should have called 20000 for a 45000 pot. That's why I believe it's a good laydown.
I'd probably fold too, even if I'm just a novice...

#15 29th March 2010, 4:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trouserpipe

riverdogg71,

If you had read my post properly, you might have noticed that I was referring to Phil pushing, post flop, with top pair and an overcard.

Why would anyone even call with q,5?

Please read my posts properly in future, as this was my first post and I was just trying to add something, but feel already that I am wasting my fingers on this forum.

If it is your sole aim to degenerate every post with snappy criticisms, based on misinformation, then I am in the wrong place. I play real poker for real money and make a living from it, and have done for some time.

Anyway, a simple, "sorry" would suffice, but I can guess what's going to happen here- let's hope I'm wrong!

And to the rest of you, where in the topic question does it ask for opinions on Phil Hellmuth's attire? I know it doesn't matter, and you are free to post your thoughts and feelings, but to a newcomer, it doesn't advertise a good poker forum to me, where a good topic can be expanded upon, and maybe someone somewhere could even learn a little from it, myself included- there are no masters in this game.

Wow just WOW. Don't know what is wrong with you (just get sucked out on the river or some bad experiences at other forums like 2+2), but I have no idea where this post even came from. Chill out, relax, and maybe you will take this forum for what it is, great. If not, leave. You were wasting your fingers responding to almost nothing. Don't know why you think this is some "great" post to go into a deep conversation about, Phil made a good fold, which he does a lot, but he couldve taken down the pot on the flop or turn with a reraise or bet. Leave your Im an awesome poker pro attitude at the door.

#16 29th March 2010, 4:58 PM

I never liked the passive approach to poker like Phil Helmuth who is usually checking his top pair and likes to catch bluffs on later streets and always folds to big river raises.

This is very exploitable and works only when playing with weak players. That's why he has many bracelets in the small NL Holdem WSOP events with fields of hundreds of weak players.

All high stakes cash players are better than Helmuth and that's why he always loses on TV.

#17 29th March 2010, 7:39 PM

Folding good hands when beat. Just as important as winning big pots.

#18 29th March 2010, 8:17 PM

Another good laydown from Phil. He couldve won the pot on the turn but got unlucky on the river. Happens.

Oh and welcome to the forum. lol

#19 29th March 2010, 8:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlopIt2Me

Good laydown or bad? What do you think and why?

http://www.bestpokermoments.com/2010...great-laydown/

I think it was a great laydown, how could it be a bad one?

It's really good because most players would pay that off but like I read above it wouldn't have gotten that far unless the guy's a moron and called all in on the turn.

#20 29th March 2010, 11:57 PM

Well it's a great laydown... on the river. Not betting his hand because of the possibility of trips is completely ridiculous to me.

Phill Hellmuth is an outdated player IMO. I mean he can read better than most pros, but what's the point if you don't understand the simple principle of agression.

Well there is a third option, the whole laydown could've been a promotional stunt, in that case I say he did a great job letting his opponent draw out to a full house.

#21 30th March 2010, 12:31 AM

how is this even a remotely big laydown? he beats JT and missed straight draws and nothing else.

#22 30th March 2010, 12:59 AM

[x] Great laydown
[ ] well played by Phil
[x] Phil should reraise flop to see where hes at
[x] Should of fired the turn to see where he was
[x] check boxes are stupid

#23 30th March 2010, 4:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trouserpipe

riverdogg71,

If you had read my post properly, you might have noticed that I was referring to Phil pushing, post flop, with top pair and an overcard.

Why would anyone even call with q,5?

Please read my posts properly in future, as this was my first post and I was just trying to add something, but feel already that I am wasting my fingers on this forum.

If it is your sole aim to degenerate every post with snappy criticisms, based on misinformation, then I am in the wrong place. I play real poker for real money and make a living from it, and have done for some time.

Anyway, a simple, "sorry" would suffice, but I can guess what's going to happen here- let's hope I'm wrong!

And to the rest of you, where in the topic question does it ask for opinions on Phil Hellmuth's attire? I know it doesn't matter, and you are free to post your thoughts and feelings, but to a newcomer, it doesn't advertise a good poker forum to me, where a good topic can be expanded upon, and maybe someone somewhere could even learn a little from it, myself included- there are no masters in this game.

Anyone else feeling a little bitchslapped? Let me tell you something buddy. I don't know what military school you went to but this forum is NOT rigidly run. People can feel free to make any comments they feel like. If you feel like you are "wasting your fingers" because someone didn't stick to your EXACT question then maybe you are. And as for the comment, I see no snappy criticism of you, no misinformation, and sure as hell no slam about you or your poker playing ability. Don't expect anyone to apologize because there is no reason to. Lighten up and enjoy the info on the site-there is a LOT we all can learn and share.

#24 30th March 2010, 3:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riverdogg71

q5s worth pushing with?

Quote:

Originally Posted by trouserpipe

riverdogg71,

If you had read my post properly, you might have noticed that I was referring to Phil pushing, post flop, with top pair and an overcard.

Why would anyone even call with q,5?

Please read my posts properly in future, as this was my first post and I was just trying to add something, but feel already that I am wasting my fingers on this forum.

If it is your sole aim to degenerate every post with snappy criticisms, based on misinformation, then I am in the wrong place. I play real poker for real money and make a living from it, and have done for some time.

Anyway, a simple, "sorry" would suffice, but I can guess what's going to happen here- let's hope I'm wrong!

And to the rest of you, where in the topic question does it ask for opinions on Phil Hellmuth's attire? I know it doesn't matter, and you are free to post your thoughts and feelings, but to a newcomer, it doesn't advertise a good poker forum to me, where a good topic can be expanded upon, and maybe someone somewhere could even learn a little from it, myself included- there are no masters in this game.

I must be the worst poker player in the world because I can't for the life of me figure out where the hell the Q5s came from none was holding Q5s.

#25 30th March 2010, 3:59 PM

is that dude for real?

anyways raising for "info" or to "find out where your at"here is such a bad play, in NLHE is too expensive.. its a good laydown but i wouldnt suggest its "great" but whatever. what hand here that dewolfe is betting for value can hellmuth beat? nothing.. he beats nothing but a bluff here.. which he kinda played his hand like that.. but i dont think dewolfe would bluff in this spot too often.

#26 30th March 2010, 6:21 PM

it was a good but not a great laydown, was nothing special i think

#27 30th March 2010, 8:31 PM

It was a good laydown, but I think he didn't play the hand well. on the flop, he kinda told the player what his hand was, by saying "You got jacks don't ya?"

#28 30th March 2010, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trouserpipe

Phil had a hand worth pushing with, and I would have pushed with it, so, I feel it was Phil's fault that Roland drew out, and was allowed to take control of the betting and keep Phil from raising, claiming his free cards as he went.

I dont think you should ever be pushing with just a pair. Phil is an extremely careful player, he doesn't like getting in on anything less than close to the nuts. Its extremely tight play but it seems to work for him most of the time.

#29 30th March 2010, 11:57 PM

Phil talks about a laydown atthe 2002 5k nlhe hall of fame championship in read em and reap. at 50/100 phil limps in utg with k8 of hearts howard lederer followed with the limp as well as several others. flop is kd 8d 3h. Phil bets 400. Howard calls and a player behind pushed for 775 total. Phil calls. Howard then asks if he can reraise and is told yes he can. Howard then pushes for 7300. After awhile Phil folds face up. Another player then mocks him for his laydown, immediately after that howard flips over his pocket 33 for the set.

#30 31st March 2010, 12:31 AM

I would side in Phil's defense. Who would argue with his success. I can't see why he would play that in that situation.

#31 31st March 2010, 1:07 AM

I was thinking a set of nines on the flop. Sometimes a big bet with a set translates to chips. Sometimes its best to check. The book says flop a set and bet.

#32 31st March 2010, 5:05 AM

I actually chatted w/ Phil on Facebook earlier today, but forgot to ask him about this hand. I just posted this hand on his FB wall. Let's see if he responds. I'll post his response if he does.

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