What bankroll do u need to make $50,000 a year ???

Hi all.

Just an `out of interest` question.

As it says, if u want to make $50,000 a year, realistically, what kind of bankroll would you need???

Also, would that bankroll differ depending on the kind of game you play - Ring game, MTT, SNG?

I`m not looking for silly answers "$10 then win a massive tourny"

My guess is about $250,000 i.e. 5 times the amount you aim to make.

I guessed that!!! However, this is the same as saying what I said not to do.

OK, put another way, to almost guarentee a $50,000 return what would you play with.

The reason this question is interesting, IMO, is that it could give u an expected return % - if u play a decent game.

How many hours/week?

How many hand/hour?

What's the biggest limit you can currently beat?

Bankroll is basically irrelevant. If you are a 1knl winner who plays 1k hands/hour, you could start the year with $0 and make 50k/year by winning a freeroll and moving up. Full-time 50k/year is $25/hour so that'd be 5 PTBB/100 at 25nl, 2.5 at 50, 1.25 at 100, etc.

If you played ~100 hrs/week, you could make $50k/year or $1k/week by playing nl100 with a $5000 bankroll (and just withdrawing your excess).

If you have a $250k bankroll you are probably playing nl2k and nl5k and could be making $50k+/month, let alone $50k/year.

No kidding, I though his estimate was a little low. Unless you're a super-tight, super-conservative/frugal kinda guy.

Again very very vague question.

Zach kinda nailed it, it depends on winrate and volume of hands at that win rate. But yea i rekon than a very good nl$100 player could maybe do it without moving up. But doing the math in itself is pretty simple, I am just tired atm

Edit : That is not taking into account any changes that may occur in the games and any/or rakeback deals that you may get.

The OP is asking what is realistic and simple no what if or it depends on scenarios. So to avoid rocket science here is my opinion:

If we are talking all online then I would say if you are playing limit poker (because that is my game) and you play 4-6 tables 4-6 hours a per day (two three hour sessions, one in the am and one in the PM with evening off if you wish) you would be likely be playing at least the $5-$10 games so...

Assuming a win rate of 1.5 bb/100 hands (maybe more?) @ 4 tables X 6 hours a day = 24 hours of playing time X 50 hands/hr (I know it can me way more depending on the table) = 1200 hands/day X 5 days a week X 4 weeks a month = 24,000 hands per month = 240 X 1.5 bb (your assumed win rate) = 360 bb X $10.0 (the amount of the big bet) = $3600 month X 12 months = $43,200.00 poker profits.

Now to play 4 $5-$10 tables you need, in my opinion $1000 buy-in ($250.00 each table) per session so you would have to have a bank roll of $40000.00 plus I would tack an additional 25% to protect against variance giving you a total of $50,000.00.

I am sure there will be many arguments why you need more or less or the win rate is too big or two small, I am trying to be conservative here.

Zach's answer is spot on. Depends on volume a lot. If you consider poker as a full time job, $50k/year is a reasonable goal for a decent 100nl reg, imo. And a 100nl reg does not need much more than $5k in his bankroll.

I'd start by dividing the year into 250 work days. This means you'd have to win $200 per day.
From there, it's a question of volume, stakes and winrate.

$200 = (H * 2B * W)/100
where
H is Hands per Day
B is One Big Blind in $
W is Winrate in ptBB

Let's say you can play 3500 hands per day. H = 3500
Now let's assume that your maximum winrate is 2 ptBB. W = 2

$200 = (3500 * 2B * 2)/100
B = ($200*100)/(3,500*2*2)
B = $40,000/14,000
B = $2.86

Based on these assumptions, one big blind would have to be at least $2.86 (remember, we assumed a winrate no higher than 2 ptBB). If you were to play an even mix between $1/$2 and $2/$4, you'd be pretty close to a big blind amount of $3.
As a professional, you'll want at least 40 buy-ins, so you'd need a bankroll of at least $12,000.

The numbers obviously change if you change the variables.

Yep TB, it was a bit vague!!!

Interesting though when people have put some thought into it.

And yes Zach, probably not enough info. I was looking from a pros point of view, so I don`t know how many hours these guys play.

This post was instigated by another one I put up when I lost a load through tilt. I mentioned that I had about $700 in my accounts at moment after losing asimilar amount.

The comment went something like "a $700 bankroll is not gonna earn you a living" so I wondered what would. If that explains everything

im pretty sure only pros could pull off 50 grand a year. If you seriously are going to do this, then what I go by is the Ferguson rule......tourney's no more than 2 or 3 % of BR and ring games no more than 5% soooo a lot more than 250k bank roll

Depends on what limit you play. If you are playing with 1k to 2k per day at a 25/50 or 100/200 you can get there if you play smart.

It all comes back to the amount of hands you play. But I would think honestly, that a decent player could play 100nl like 120k+ hands a month and make 50k a year pretty easily. You would want like $3000-$5000 to do this safely though.

Not quite sure why you are trying to figure it out like that, but in any case that is way off coz ptbb = BB = 2bb. 3500 hands/day = 25000 hands/week for the sake of simplicity. 2BB @ 200nl = $8. 25k*$8/100 = $2k/week. You have 36 weeks with 250 work days so that is $72k/year at only nl200 w/a small win rate.

And even if you only make 2.5BB/100 @ 200nl or 5BB/100 at nl100, if you get 500 hands/hr that is $50/hr which is more than enough to make $50k/year if you put in half the volume of a fulltime job.

What are you talking about?????

2 or 3% of what.

Alot of very good players so far in this thread have said it is possible to achieve this playing 100NL or 200NL. Now using your Chris Ferguson rules of only buying in for 3% of your bankroll you would be able to buy in for a measly $7,500 (250,000*.03). Now a winning player 4 tabling $7500 should be able to earn $50,000 a fortnight not per year.

ONE HONDRED MILLYUN DOLLERS

FYP

Yes, that's why the equation reads 2B
Apparently, I still suck at math though because Belgo rightfully corrected me.

Thanks

I would love 2 but I`m not aiming 4 that!!!

As I said `Out of interest`

The reason I ask is because u see the pros buying in to MTT for $5k + . Then playing cash games with $100k in front of them.

I know these guys make megga bucks, but $50k a year would be nice.

It depends on how much time you spend palying poker and on how good you are!

OK, I`ll put this another way!!!

If a pro poker player wanted to make $50,000 pa what bankroll would he need to get him there???

zach, feitr, christc, tenbob, monoxide and i told you this was a reasonable goal for a 100nl / 200nl reg putting in the hours of a regular job. we all play those limits or higher, so we kind of know what we're talking about, and some (chris and zach for sure) will actually put in the volume too to make more than $50k this year for sure.

playing 100nl/200nl as a reg requires something between $5k and $10k depending on how much of a BR nit you are.

What more information do you need exactly?

The amount of bankroll you "need" to live on is dependent upon the kind of games you play, where you play, and how you see money. If you see a $1200 bet as a 53" tv...then you should probably go teach gym at an elementary school.

Johnny Chan said he sat down at a table 5/10 NLHE with $300 and the rest as they say is history.

Also it is important to note that the top players play cash and multi table tourneys, you need both games to make a living in my opinion.

So taking all of that into account:
Lets look at the numbers!
$4,000/ month
x12
$48,000

How can YOU make $4,000 in a month at poker? Is it live games? single table sngs, multi table tourneys?

YOU NEED TO PLAY WHEREVER, WHENEVER, KNOW WHEN TO WALK AWAY, HAVE PATIENCE, NOT PLAY AT TOO MANY TABLES, KEEP THE DISTRACTIONS TO A MINIMUM (AT HOME).

I WOULD NEED A book in order to expalin or really it would be better if you found someone who is doing it and emulate what they do what they play..take at least 10x the big blind to any cash table..and dont risk more than 10% of your bankroll on any tourney.

If you are looking to make money online i suggest looking at chris fergusons 0 to $10,000 challenge commentary on Full Tilt.

here is some of it:
"
Starting with nothing but a Full Tilt Poker account, Chris played in Freerolls until he earned enough to graduate to games with real-money buy-ins. From that point on, he adhered to a strict set of guidelines to build up his bankroll:

• He never bought into a cash game or a Sit & Go for more than 5 percent of his total bankroll; the only exception was at the lowest limits: he was allowed to buy into any game with a buy-in of $2.50 or less
• He didn’t buy into any multi-table tournaments for more than 2 percent of his total bankroll; the only exception was $1 MTTs
• If at any time during a No-Limit or Pot-Limit cash-game session the money on the table represented more than 10 percent of his total bankroll, he had to leave the game when the blinds reached him

Getting started wasn’t easy. In fact, it took more than seven months of steady play until he got his bankroll to stabilize at about $6.50. Undaunted, Chris maintained his discipline and dedication and continued with his challenge. Then, on November 26th, 2006, Chris made a major breakthrough. He turned a $1 tournament buy-in into $104 in prize money when he finished second in a 683-player tournament. Even with that huge bankroll boost, it still took Chris nine more months of hard work to reach $10K. But because he strictly adhered to the bankroll management strategy that he’d set for himself, Chris achieved his goal the following September.
To learn more about how you can turn good play and patience into thousands of dollars, check out Chris’s Pro Tip on bankroll management. Remember that when you play in a game or tournament that is above your head, you are putting your entire bankroll at risk. If you plan ahead and play smart, you’ll be able to survive any bad beat or tough run without being crippled. Chris Ferguson knows this – he's done it."

http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/chris-ferguson-challenge

GL AND HAVE FUN................NOT EVERYONE CAN BE A PRO PLAYER AND IF YOU FIND THAT YOU ARE NOT WINNING...PLAY FOR LESS MONEY...AND JUST MAKE IT A HOBBY AND NOT A LIVING!!!

TY Sir

I was suprised the bankroll was so low. The reason I say this is because if u start with $10k u will need to be making aprox 13.5% ROI every month. Seems high to me? Or have I got my maths wrong?

Yea alright well i knew the big blind value you got was meant to be the big bet -just didn't really look at the equation close enough to see it was just a arithmetic problem.

ROI doesn't even apply to cash games. If you win at 5BB/100, you win 1 buy in every 1k hands, so if you have a 30 buy in bankroll rule and you play 30k hands in a month (prob 50-75hrs depending on tables played) you have doubled your roll and this is perfectly perfectly realistic.

Most players that are good and put in decent volume will make several times their starting bankroll in a given year.

TY very much for your valued contribution, feel free to add any more invaluable advice tomorrow!