Well It Has Finally Happened

After a long roller coaster ride filled with fantastic highs and gut wrenching lows I have finally lost the remains of my bank roll. This has put me in an interesting position--allowing introspection and and assessment as to where I want my game to go.

Within this time frame I have cashed out more then I had initially deposited so I am a winning player in my online career, but recently I have been on a downside and my ultimate demise was no doubt caused my a lack of patience when it was most important and an often blatant disregard for bank roll management.

So now I come to you in search of suggestions. I am looking to deposit somewhere in the realm of 50-100 dollars in the hopes of returning to my former winning ways.

I am not opposed to playing any format, but would like to specialize and am unsure of whether to base to stake my claim firmly in the SNG style games or if a foray into cash for the long haul would be more profitable.

Also any discussion in relation to the micro stakes would be most welcome as I find the huge microstakes threads difficult to follow given the number of posts involved.

Thanks and without out further ado let round 2 begin.

You sound like you've already started the process; identifying your weaknesses and noting that it's probably best to focus in one area or the other, at least for a time.

Write down a list of the most important aspects that you feel that you need to watch/address, read them before you start playing, evaluate after you're done as to how well you did.

Thanks for the advice. Also to effectively play the microstakes how much would you all start off with in the account?

Standard bankroll management says 20 - 30 buyins, so for $10 tables, $200. I didn't follow that when I started out with $50 playing $10 tables, but then I was prepared to deposit more to get started. I just didn't want to deposit more right away because that would make the first deposit bonus harder for me to reach.

The most important question is "Are you prepared to change your ways?"

Bankroll management is a must. And, patience may be a virtue but impatience can most definitely be expennnnnsive. (which is why I generally stay away from the big MTT's.)

If your "re-learning patience" you can try Bodog's $2+.20 or $4+.40 beginner's SNG's that payout to the top five. The $$$ are low but the
50% payout is great to get back on track and protect your bankroll.

the definition of insanity is, to continue doing the same things and expecting a different result, I dont know if this will help but its something to reflect on

fyp

So if I get sucked out on and keep calling AIPF with AA I'm insane?

Yes, because:
AA is just a pair and I never go all in with just a pair.
Gotta learn when to fold 'em.
Might as well play bingo as to go all-in preflop.
Insert your favorite stupidism here.

Maybe I'm crazy but I would not be too bothered by having all my chips in the middle with AA preflop.

I enjoy reading your posts keep us informed on your progress and good luck in round two

lol

Irregardless of the number of opponents and stack sizes?

thanks...i think i want to start at 5 NL and work my way up--with a proper bankroll and all. i was inspired reading posts on here from players that started at that level and now play 100nl or beyond. i was considering poker software--is there anything free or with a substantial free trial or should i just wait--i mainly want to track my progress not so much other people.

actually after searching a bit i'm downloading pokertracker for its 60 day free trial!

As I suggest to many people on here....If you are looking to help your bank roll, investigate joining one of several online staking sites. Then you can play SNGs on other peoples money while collecting 50% of the profit.

This can help get you back on your feet, and you may be able to play at a higher level than you can otherwise afford.

Started playing .01-.02 with a $20 bankroll (i know not ideal, but I will redeposit if things go very bad) and have since raised it up to $26 in two days. The play is certainly very poor and for the most part I've been nitting it up with an occasional steal, but only when I'm confident that the player isn't a calling station. I'm enjoying the stats the software provides to me about my own play and I'm getting excited about the chance of escaping the microstakes someday.

sumtimes u gotta go wit ur gut

hows that one?

Are you suggesting that I should fold aces preflop in some circumstances? You would have to pry the cards from my hands before I did that.

You're in a satellite tournament, 27 places get a ticket. You are at the bubble, 28 players. In a terrible twist of fate, you are the short stack. You have a single chip.

The blinds stand at 10000/20000 and everyone else has stack sizes somewhere around 250k-400k. There are 7 players left, and you are on the Button. Your heart leaps when the player UTG goes all in. But will he get a call? UTG+1 calls. UTG+2 snap calls. The Cutoff thinks for a second, and calls because he is the big stack and cannot be knocked out.

The small blind and big blind fumble their chips and call out of turn in a rush to get their money in the pot. In the process, the small blind turns over 33, and the big blind... 33. The cutoff yells triumphantly, turning over 77. The players with 33 are drawing only to a straight. But two other players turn up 44 and 44, leaving the players with 33 drawing with 0.2% chance to tie.

Then the dealer says, "Hey, wait, one player still has to act, don't show your cards yet!". Everyone is slightly embarassed as they look over at you, not having realized you were still in the hand.

You look down at your cards and see... AA.

You snap call!!!!

The board comes out... K 7 7

Another player is ecstatic at first and shows AK, but then realizes his opponent, and yours, has hit quads. Your AA is drawing absolutely, positively, stone cold dead.

The turn and river are meaningless, and you are knocked out of the tournament.

But you HAD to call preflop with AA.... right?

I wouldn't call with anything in that situation since players are all in before you on a bubble like that, its definitely -ev, but i thought we were talking about cash game situations, I'm pretty sure you are never correct to do that.

I'm new here but OMG the sarcastic cynicism I've read from the regulars always leaves me in stiches. There are some classic posts by those with over 1K of posting expereince on CC that should be posted in the jokes section. I'm a guy so to me its just friendly banter but what if someone is very emotionally sensitve (do they play poker?)

Anyway to answer the question... I think NineLions has made a good point. But I prefer the Bankroll strategy of Chris Ferguson on the academy vids which I'm sure you've seen.

His strategy is dont cash into cash games with more than 5% of your bankroll and leave if you have more than 10% of it on the table (I disagree with the second half because the table could be just giving you their cash-why leave?)

MTT I see is not mentioned in your starting up again which is probably very good because it is very streaky. Buf If you are interested in MTT join me as I work through the Harrington on Holdem workbook in the startegy section. You will soon be eligible to play in some of the freerolls offered here, and why not polish up your tourney skills with me on that thread. (Is this shameless self promotion? YES) Maybe you could get a bankroll going from the freeroll cash you're bound to win because you're studying with some of the pros who are bound to give their wisdom sooner or later on that thread.
Lata, Michael

True, if you are following proper bankroll management.

Here's why: you don't really care about money. You care about utility, i.e. how happy the money makes you. Getting $1,000,000 is not even close to twice as helpful as getting $500,000. Also, losing $100,000 is significantly MORE harmful than getting $100,000 is helpful. (This is assuming you are not ridiculously rich.

But losing 25 cents and getting 25 cents are almost exactly opposite in terms of utility. This is the point of bankroll management. When you are playing within your bankroll, utility EV decisions and $ EV are the same. Losing 1 buyin and gaining 1 buyin should be exactly opposite.

If you have your whole life savings on the table and someone goes all in, where blinds are 1000/2000 and you have AA, you should fold. Because losing your life savings is so terrible compared to what you gain by doubling up.

You want to be playing within your bankroll because otherwise you will not make perfect Utility decisions (which is best for your life in the long term) while still making good $ decisions (which is, of course, best for your bankroll in the long term).

I see your point but under this circumstance don't you have to acknowledge the fact that you could lose your life savings here anyway. I mean you should never put yourself in that scenario in the first place, but sitting down at the table itself is basically accepting that risk, and if you do sit down you must think that gaining a buy in or winning a lot of money is worth risking your life savings, because if you didn't you wouldn't play, which kinda reminds me of Rounders. Yes the right decision would be to fold if you care about your future, but if you already are playing then you obviously don't care enough so I can't see anyone making that move.

Lol, I saw a hand posted by someone a while back (maybe zach) that where he accidentally sat at a table with Brian Townsend and posted the BB (heads up), and had to fold a monster hand to a standard raise because it was like 20x his normal stakes. It had something to do with a FTP mod.

I find it funny where my topic has gone--I'm really starting to enjoy this forum. I'm having a lot of fun and luck at .01/.02 and being a solid winner so far this week. On a side not Townsend is one hell of a player.

Yeah, your topic has been taken off the rails a bit.

But this all sounds pretty good. You're right that the 0.01/0.02 tends to be pretty bad, but at the same time if you have problems with patience, maybe that part and the nitty play is good practice for you.

It definitely is--and the strict bankroll management I'm giving myself will certainly help me to maintain being a winning player in the future. Plus I enjoy the idea that I can move up stakes and possibly make it a level that impacts the amount of money I'm making--in addition to working and such.

So, Ahem, I'm pro cash games and I would recommend to keep grinding out that 2NL and once you get to $100 move up to 5NL, and when you make it to 10NL, and then I would consider looking into a poker tracking software. Good luck!

Tournaments are where the real heroes are made! Ask Phil Hellmuth...

I'd say that being a great tournament player is equal to being a great cash player. Also I've since doubled my money and am up to $40 playing .01/.02--SLD2 I'll be taking your advice and waiting until i get to $100 to advance however i did just start playing two tables at once and am not finding it difficult.