US Players - Are you playing online?

#1 17th July 2012, 2:52 AM

I keep getting emails from poker sites that are open to US players. After the major US sites were closed by the government I stopped playing online and even after reading many sites am not sure if it's even legal to do so. I've asked a lot of players at a local card room and didn't find anyone still playing online. I want to poll a broader audience and also hear any thoughts. I am concerned about lack of regulation as well.

If you are a US player that still plays online please let me know where you play, if you trust the site and how has it been when you cash out?

#2 17th July 2012, 2:57 AM

Playing poker online is not and never was illegal.

For US players, however, deposits and withdrawals are difficult.

These are sites that accept US players that are recommended by CC:

http://www.cardschat.com/us-poker-sites.php

#3 17th July 2012, 2:58 AM

Sure, a ton of us play online. Merge and Revolution (Cake) networks still accept US players.

It is not illegal to play online poker in the US, unless you happen to be from one of the states that specifically outlaw it. Never has been. The UIGEA relates to financial institutions that do business with illegal gambling businesses, but there has never been criminalization of players at the federal level.

Merge and Revolution are trustworthy networks, pick any skin (I recommend BlackChip on Merge and Lock on Revolution/Cake). Cashing out is hit & miss from any of them serving the US for what should be obvious reasons -- you *will* get your money, but it may take 3-4 weeks or 3-4 months depending on how much trouble they run into with their payment processors. Lock now offers WU at a 10% fee, the first of which every month is refunded.

#4 17th July 2012, 3:14 AM

Been playing on Merge sites, and had no problems so far.

#5 17th July 2012, 9:47 AM

I've played at Carbon with no relative problems.

#6 17th July 2012, 12:47 PM

I belong to a group of poker buddies and we all still play online. Some as myself never stopped for a second. BF came and we just downloaded more and when doyles room and minted (everleaf gaming) were shut down we just kept moving.

As it is said above "playing" online poker is legal and always has been. Receiving money from a poker site is legal. The only law they use against a site revolves around how you deposit your funds and wire transfers.

As for cashing out I haven't been that blessed yet but have a friend who is. He's made @ $20k so far in 3 months on blackchip (merge network) and was doing quite well on cake before that. Again, as stated above this initial cashout will take what seems to be forever but once approved the sequential cashouts are smooth and easy as he has had at least 5 cashouts so far in 6-7 months.

Where we play. I personally stay with cake and blackchip but any skin on either revolution or merge networks are fine. many from my group also play at intertops and hog wild.

The point of it (at least to me) is to keep our skills up and as any good American stubbornly snub my nose at the DOJ and continue to enjoy an activity that brings no harm to those around me and is a part of American heritage.

#7 17th July 2012, 5:36 PM

To be fair I don't think the poll itself will give you useful results since you are asking people who are part of an online poker forum whether they play poker online.

I'm not saying EVERYBODY at CC plays poker online, but it has to be the vast majority.

#8 17th July 2012, 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scourrge

To be fair I don't think the poll itself will give you useful results since you are asking people who are part of an online poker forum whether they play poker online.

I'm not saying EVERYBODY at CC plays poker online, but it has to be the vast majority.

Add to that the title of the post - if they are not playing online they are probably going to skip this thread as something not relevant to them. So yeah, this poll will be skewed.

Merge Network/Carbon

#9 17th July 2012, 6:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scourrge

To be fair I don't think the poll itself will give you useful results since you are asking people who are part of an online poker forum whether they play poker online.

I'm not saying EVERYBODY at CC plays poker online, but it has to be the vast majority.

yep, BF definitely pushed most U.S. players out but a few have moved to other sites.
i don't put in nearly as much volume online post BF though. perhaps it's because i can't seem to win online anymore. it took me years to get comfortable at pokerstars so probably take nearly as long to get use to merge.

#10 17th July 2012, 6:16 PM

I barely play and haven't deposited since black friday. Might deposit for poker maximus coming up, but the deposit methods and withdrawal times concern me. I'm looking forward to online poker getting regulated in the US. That's when I'll be back and playing a lot again like I did during the days of pokerstars and ftp

#11 17th July 2012, 6:25 PM

I play on merge and have had no problems, just longer cashout times. But it's either put up with that or don't play, so i don't mind. I certainly don't keep nearly as much of my roll on the sites though as i did before

#12 18th July 2012, 11:14 PM

I play on Merge. I miss Pokerstars terribly though. Definitely not as much fun anymore

#13 19th July 2012, 12:49 AM

Online poker playing is yes, currently most of my play is at intertops. also ive noticed a few posts commenting on pokerstars. i have to admit i miss pokerstars too..

#14 19th July 2012, 4:43 AM

currently on merge, cake, americas card room, and soon to be pokerstars again once delaware starts it

#15 19th July 2012, 8:54 PM

Yes I am... On black chip poker and carbon poker... I also have cake, not played there yet but I have it when the time presents itself

It’s not death itself that breaks my heart but loss of potential to do great things... that is good... you know who said that?

#16 21st July 2012, 5:24 PM

I'm playing on Carbon and black chip. I really want PokerStars/FtP back though.. :-/

#17 23rd July 2012, 1:18 PM

Hi everyone. I'm in the us and have gotten money back. It might take a few weeks but it does come. I play in cake poker and black chip. Just passing on the info.

#18 23rd July 2012, 4:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dantheman91

/FtP back though.. :-/

really now??....

#19 27th July 2012, 6:27 PM

merge is a joke

software is shoddy and the withdrawal max is hilarious.

cake has screwed players

i do play online though

#20 6th August 2012, 7:20 AM

I have been playing on a few networks, but lately mainly just the carbon and Aced. Have no problems yet, I did on bodog. Think bodog is gone, for US players anyways. Guess those votes "No" are those Bodog players, lol.

#21 6th August 2012, 7:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowman

I have been playing on a few networks, but lately mainly just the carbon and Aced. Have no problems yet, I did on bodog. Think bodog is gone, for US players anyways. Guess those votes "No" are those Bodog players, lol.

Bodog became Bovada for US players. Sucks even worse than Bodog IMO compared to the competition though, and I uninstalled it completely after the switch.

#22 15th August 2012, 4:02 AM

I played on Skillbet, which is a duplicate poker kind of game.

There's a free $10 challenge if you want to try it out. I'll put the challenge link on my profile if that's okay with the mods.

#23 15th August 2012, 10:54 PM

I am a little surprised that anyone in the online poker would think that online poker in USA is illegal. Except under a couple of state laws, it is not.

Financial institutions affiliated with the Federal Reserve are prohibited from transacting with those EVIL online dens of iniquity.

If your favorite online site puts a layer of non-FederalReserve transaction between you and them---voila! not illegal. This might be why it takes longer to cash out these days.

The united states government is ONLY interested in a hefty chunk of the revenue stream, as always.

#24 16th August 2012, 2:14 AM

I just came back a few weeks ago and started playing again. I knew it was legal to "play" online but since I was afraid that any funds I deposited could end up in limbo for years or even disappear all at once I gave the game a break.

Recently I decided to come back and build my bankroll from only freerolls. I did have some help as I had some points left on bovada from when I used to play on bodog that I traded for tickets and was able to get small roll started on sit n go's.

I wish I hadn't took so much time off as I feel rusty but I'm enjoying myself and I don't foresee myself quitting again anytime soon.

#25 16th August 2012, 3:09 AM

Every online poker site serving US players IS breaking federal law. Whether they are more like Stars and segregate accounts and will be able to pay out any fees/go bankrupt and not steal player money, or be like FTP/UB and not be able to pay out players if fined by the US government is the question. That said I currently play Merge and Lock. You can buy both at somewhere around 90c on the dollar though so I just keep a mega-short roll and if I get too low can just reload. If you don't mind waiting forever/you play small enough stakes the withdrawal limits don't harm you just cash out yourself at 100%-fee or you can sell your BR for the ~90c for cashouts. I'm still hesitant though and if I had a casino close to me you can bet I'd never play online. But playing live is boring/long trip for me so I play online. I've already made and cashed out more than my balance so guess it was a good decision to do it so far, hopefully I can keep playing though until federal regulation is passed.

#26 16th August 2012, 3:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by always2away

I am a little surprised that anyone in the online poker would think that online poker in USA is illegal. Except under a couple of state laws, it is not.

Financial institutions affiliated with the Federal Reserve are prohibited from transacting with those EVIL online dens of iniquity.

If your favorite online site puts a layer of non-FederalReserve transaction between you and them---voila! not illegal. This might be why it takes longer to cash out these days.

The united states government is ONLY interested in a hefty chunk of the revenue stream, as always.

It is illegal for any online poker site to offer its services to people from ANY state in the US. Currently there is no regulatory framework available at the federal level or in any state, therefore all online poker sites are unlicensed in the US. All 50 states (to the best of my knowledge, I haven't actually checked) have laws against offering for-profit unlicensed gambling. The laws differ on whether unraked private games are legal or not but it's my understanding that all 50 states require a place offering gambling to be licensed (as a casino), therefore any online poker site is illegal at the state level in all 50 states.

Then we go to the federal level and see where it is illegal to offer unlawful internet gambling, which is defined as internet gambling that is illegal at the federal level or in any state which it is being offered. This gives the feds the power to prosecute any online poker site offering services to US players in any state. While the people saying that PLAYING is not illegal (other than in a few states) are correct, every single online poker site serving Americans is currently breaking the law in the US, and we have to be wary of the risk that any fines from the US government would cause them to just run with our money.

#27 16th August 2012, 4:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackmeplz

It is illegal for any online poker site to offer its services to people from ANY state in the US. Currently there is no regulatory framework available at the federal level or in any state, therefore all online poker sites are unlicensed in the US. All 50 states (to the best of my knowledge, I haven't actually checked) have laws against offering for-profit unlicensed gambling. The laws differ on whether unraked private games are legal or not but it's my understanding that all 50 states require a place offering gambling to be licensed (as a casino), therefore any online poker site is illegal at the state level in all 50 states.

Then we go to the federal level and see where it is illegal to offer unlawful internet gambling, which is defined as internet gambling that is illegal at the federal level or in any state which it is being offered. This gives the feds the power to prosecute any online poker site offering services to US players in any state. While the people saying that PLAYING is not illegal (other than in a few states) are correct, every single online poker site serving Americans is currently breaking the law in the US, and we have to be wary of the risk that any fines from the US government would cause them to just run with our money.

Could you please quote/link to a source on this? I am looking for clarification on the whole thing. I have buddy who will not get back online because he's afraid it is illegal and he will get in trouble - YET the same guy who will not risk pennies on this will go to organized home games (up to 50 players) for up to $120 BI which are for sure contrary to this states law.

#28 16th August 2012, 10:05 PM

I'd rather take advice from an advanced member than someone clearly talking out of there ass

#29 17th August 2012, 2:51 AM

I've switched from 80% online play/20% live play to the opposite -- so although I still play, losing PS and FT has changed things for me.

#30 17th August 2012, 6:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MediaBLITZ

Could you please quote/link to a source on this? I am looking for clarification on the whole thing. I have buddy who will not get back online because he's afraid it is illegal and he will get in trouble - YET the same guy who will not risk pennies on this will go to organized home games (up to 50 players) for up to $120 BI which are for sure contrary to this states law.

Not sure what state you live in but in most states it is either legal or the law is not enforced against home games that don't take a rake. Once the game starts taking a rake though and the game is at risk of getting busted. Not sure what you mean by clarification though. Read the UIGEA, it allows the federal government to prosecute based on state law, and just search your own state legislation to see if running an unregulated (in the US anyway) for-profit poker room is legal. (I'll save you the trouble, it's illegal in all 50 states)

Quote:

Originally Posted by UlysseNardin

I'd rather take advice from an advanced member than someone clearly talking out of there ass

I've discussed this matter with various people who work for the ppa including the lawyer who does the lobbying on this (skallagrim) and the head of it (theEngineer). Not that it should matter because everything I said is very easily verifiable with a few google searches. But my point was I may be somewhat new to this forum but hopefully people realize that I may know a bit more than someone who doesn't even know the difference between there and their

#31 17th August 2012, 6:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MediaBLITZ

Could you please quote/link to a source on this? I am looking for clarification on the whole thing. I have buddy who will not get back online because he's afraid it is illegal and he will get in trouble - YET the same guy who will not risk pennies on this will go to organized home games (up to 50 players) for up to $120 BI which are for sure contrary to this states law.

Oh also I thought it was clear but unless he lives in a few select states playing online poker is not illegal. If the sites are legit even if busted he would still not lose money and no matter what he shouldn't worry about any legal troubles, whereas at least in my state when the police bust a game they confiscate all money from the house/players and don't return it. The issue is that like FTP and UB, it's possible that the sites are just trying to maximize short-term profits by serving Americans and that they will cut their losses and run with our money if the US government goes after them. Obviously that's just speculation but in light of what happened on BF I think it's legit speculation.

#32 17th August 2012, 4:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackmeplz

If the sites are legit even if busted he would still not lose money and no matter what he shouldn't worry about any legal troubles, whereas at least in my state when the police bust a game they confiscate all money from the house/players and don't return it.

This is my point exactly - but he seems unwilling to take my word for it so I was asking if you could point me to a legal authority, or Q and A, or something online I could forward to him (since it appears you've done your homework).

I have not yet told him what a contradiction he is playing these live games - it just hit me a couple of days ago when he started up a league he is involved with that has a per session buy-in as big as the biggest tourney at the casinos here in town. I am going to bring it up the next time the online discussion hits, though.

I have even sent him screen grabs of my free-roll wins to show he doesn't even have to make a deposit to get going and still won't comeback online. I feel weird cause this is the guy who prompted and prodded and got me started.

#33 17th August 2012, 4:41 PM

http://theppa.org/about/faq/#faq7

Quote:

4. Is playing poker legal in the United States?
Generally, playing poker in a social setting in one’s home is legal in most, but not all, states. Some states permit playing social games of poker in taverns and bars, while very few states allow commercial poker games.
Increasingly, however, government officials have undertaken “crackdowns” on the playing of poker in traditional settings, including at charity events. These stories are detailed in the News section of this Web site.
The Internet poses separate issues. There is currently no federal law that prohibits anyone from playing poker online. The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006, does not change any federal gambling laws and does not make it illegal for people to play on the Internet (Note: some states do have laws, like Washington St. which have criminal penalties for online play). However, on April 15, 2011 the U.S. Department of Justice upped the ante and has shut down some of the leading global online poker providers. This has effectively cut-off US poker players to these sites and seriously restricted the rights of Americans to play online poker.
For more information about your state visit our legal resources page. Click here to learn more.

#34 17th August 2012, 4:48 PM

Thank you - do you happen to have anything on the alleged clarification that the UGIEA is defining sports betting as the gambling it is talking about and not poker? Or something to that effect. I probably have it all screwed up - that's why I'm asking.

#35 29th December 2012, 9:56 PM

I'm trying to deposit money on Carbon poker. They do not have a visa card option anymore. One option is still wire transfer. However they want me to transfer the money to some random person in the phillipines. It seems sketchy to me. Is it really legit(meaning my deposit will get into my account in a timely manner)? Has anybody else deposited money through the wrie transfer? what was your experience?
FYI i live in New Jersey. I'm not sure what my specific state laws are regarding online poker.

: As a US player are you currently playing online?
Yes		87.12%
No - I don't trust the sites with no US regulation		2.27%
Not currently but will if The US legalizes and regulates it		8.33%
Not interested in Online play as I don't trust it		2.27%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

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