the unknowns

I consider myself to be a fairly tight player.

As I am not a delirious man, I no doubt am tighter than most.

Such hands like AJ do not appeal to me, and KQ isn't neccesary to play either. Of course, there are situations where I would play these hands depending on such things as position and reads.

Even so, I am a tight player. Although at times I will fall helplessly to the seduction of such hands as Q10 suited, KQ suited, J10 suited, extc. as many of you probably do as well.

These hands I consider my unknowns. Many times I play them according to the situation at hand, but often because they just look like they can hit the flop so hard. And of course, they can, or they can not.

But, the reason for this thread is that I would like to read some opinions on hands such as these, and what some of you do with them, with examples pre-flop and post-flop. Or let me know if you'd rather I give such examples.

Remain exempt from elaborating on such obvious theories of these hands being able to create straight and flush draws, due to us all being aware of this.

Play them in late position if you are the first raiser, or if you feel like the preflop raiser is very fishy postflop and you can get one-on-one with him.

one on one? I would rather see a mult way pot with j10s then heads up pot.

If he is weak post-flop, then with position you can steal quite a few pots if the flop misses initial raiser's range of hands.

Are we talking about cash games here or tournaments ?

In tournaments you sometimes have to play hands like that and even much worse hands.

^^ That I disagree with.

But, neither is the center of the discussion, it includes both tournaments and cash games.

When you ask what to do with them, you must play them like the hands you play at other times. If you're choosing to play other hands you must conceal their weakness.

And actually cash/tournament games does make a big difference on whether your range should be wider or not. Also what you are looking to do with the pot. Do you need to offer pot control strategies or not'? Quite situational cash/tourney dependent.

Stix

I see my question more so directed towards cash games, due to me mostly not playing these types of hands in tournaments, plus tournaments require to in depth of a response due to such things as blind increases and stack sizes.

never play any of those hands.

KQs is a fold from every position. Only call/limp with AA, because you don't want to scare away you're opponents. /end sarcasm

I guess this question seems a little strange.

I play 6max. I will raise KQ from pretty well every position. I'll also raise AJ from any position, I probably raise with JT from MP-BTN.

So my preflop play will look something like raise 3-4bb- because my hand has a strong level of intrinsic value and I probably have the best hand preflop.

My post-flop play looks something like cbet 2/3-full pot most all of the time (same reasons I'm betting preflop + I am happy just taking it down right there). Of course that depends on the number preflop callers and my relative position to them.

If I get called and have not connected I shut down 2/3s of the time when I get to the turn- again depending on reads and position.

If I'm still around at the river I probably have a hand and now have to gauge how much bluff catcher/value hand I have and the amount that I am willing to have invested in this hand before it can be let go.

In tournaments when the blinds go up you start having to play worse hands due to relative stack sizes and a lot of other factors. Late tourny AJ is pretty stellar.

You can't play profitably those hands if you don't change your style. You are definitely playing cards, not poker... It definitely works against fishy players at low stakes,but you'll get crushed at the higher stakes.

It does not really matter if you have AA or 74o if you usually win your AA hands without showdown on the flop or turn. I'd recommend to play online at deep stack micro stakes tables to test LAG style and improve hand reading based on betting patterns. I actually use online poker only for training and play higher stakes live.

K10 suited is terrible hand... you'd better play something like 78s. Small cards can make straights and flushes just like facecards

You can easily go broke on KK4 board with K10 because fold is not an option and you will give your stack to someone with AK or KQ. You'd better focus on making big hands rather than hitting big pairs.

Poker is situational. Alot of players seem to want to put classify/place particular hands in a box (< hypothetical). I'ts just not what poker is about.

I would play a few of them in certain situations. Saying never is an extremely long time and you miss an opportunity on the right table.

We have all seen players who limp in or call 2X BB with just about any 2 cards. Sometimes they accrue huge chip stacks! I assume that they generally lose it all later on .. I dunno... I'm long gone by then (haha), But I digress. Any 2 cards are either playable or NOT playable depending on circumstances. The best reason NOT to play a hand is because in that particular situation it is unlikely to win. For example, if a player in early position raises 8 X BB, you should expect that your 8 3 is unlikely to succeed.

i like to play suited connectors in a multiway pot if i can limp, Q10 (for example) i almost never do anything with it unless i am in a tourney, late position, no limpers, no raisers and i am very short stack, blind are big, i might shove. in a cash game, 9 handed, i would always fold unless its just me and a guy who plays like 100% of his hands!

You cant just look at a hand and have a certain way to play it ull be busto in no time...theres too many variables to even consider,stack sizes for implied odds,whether your the aggressor or not,whether your in position or not...If your likely not to be sharing cards based on the situation or if your drawing and if you can hit n double up then your cards shouldnt really matter...i mean 67s v AK is better then KJs V AK...your playing on the first level of thinking(your cards)...try n get to second(your opponents cards) and third level (what your opponent thinks you have)

no real answer to this...

tooo many variables

its not just the cards you have its the cards they have/they think you have/what you want them to think you have etc etc etc

stack sizes....where are the small stacks in relation to you/the large stacks in relation to you etc etc etc

fold equity/pot odds/implied odds

if there was a simple answer i be keeping it to myself

Couple of good answers here above ^ (Jerrysin & MrHopeful in particular).

Since I play mostly HU, I consider all my hands as unknowns.
Most of the time you won't know at all what's going to happen until the flop comes. And if you don't play trash or rags, or go crazy OOP, that's fine.

I see a lot of people concocting perfect hand ranges to play at each single position. But NL holdem is a postflop game, and that's where you will play with most of your chips. Good hand selection is indeed a requirement to be a winning player, but if you have no idea what you're doing after the first betting round, you're still going to lose a lot of money.

100% i'm agree middle running suits are variables and depends on the sitaution i believe that those hands are for deception purposes or on tilt or trappin the big stack

If your good enough to play your opponents it doesnt matter what your cards are, easier said than done but I think that is the goal in this game to play and win with any cards. So how do you play those cards, you have to tell a story and make your opponents believe you have them beat.

OP - if you play that tight does anyone ever give you action?

This is merely summarizing my general strategy in games.

I play tight, and give myself a tight image. It makes no difference to me whether I get action on my aces or not, because if I pick up the blinds and show the aces then I am creating an impeccable image. This opens me up to raising with suited connectors and stealing blinds, as well as pots. As well as it opens me up to 3betting powerfully and playing low pairs and such and creating profit.

On top of this image, yes I will get action sometimes on my big hands. Low stakes many people do not pay attention to image, and if I notice this I stay tight and take advantage. Also they remain believing AJ is a great hand and that is where they get crushed by my AQ/AK holding. Whether I am tight or not, many players will see this AJ/A10/KQ/suited connector and give me a quick call and a nice pot to take home.

I am tight, yet very very aggressive, and adapt to the field.