Ultimate Bet Customer Non Service - what is it worth to keep customers coming back

Well, I have just had the most stressful experience at Ultimate Bet.

First of all, regarding their "all-in protection" that is clearly shown on your account page. It is a half-truth... I found out the hard way that this feature is not available in tournaments; SNG, MTT, etc. The only place you can find this out is not even linked to the notice on the accounts page.

Second, When I got disconnected from a SNG today (the 1st time, it happened twice) my hand (which was just after flop and had a set of 7s) I frantically redialed, got reconnected to find my hand folded and the game was onto the next hand. I could see from chips that I was down what I had bet just before d/c and the person I was HU with had a much larger stack. I was pissed, but kept on going, I could make it up.

A few hands later I flopped a K high flush, went all in and WHAM... d/c-ed! Once again, I got reconnected to find my hand folded before the river had come!!! I was eliminated.

I emailed CS about it and demanded a refund of the $5.50 buy-in. The finally emailed me and told me that I had gotten on before the hand was over so I was outta luck. No refund, and BTW, the all-in is "no longer available in tournaments". Furthermore, thay say that I was only diconnected once and that I had indeed finished that hand (the 1st one). I told them that was not the case, they said in so many words, too bad...no money.

I replied and told them that I was a loyal customer that had, in the past 30 days, deposited several hundred dollars there. I told them that $5.50 to retain a good customer and the promotion I give to them when asked about different poker sites. Even though it seems to appear that my situation falls outside of thier credit guidlines, it would be a good business decision to simply credit my account the measly $5.50. The answered in one word...NO.

So I went on to bring up to them some odd incidents that I (and others that I had read about) have had when clicking a certain action button (fold) and getting a call instead. No response....

Your thoughts and suggestions as to what to do. I know it's only 5 bucks, but hey, 5 bucks is way more to me than it is to them, yes??

I may have missed some details here, but I am still a bit tilted over this whole thing. If the all-in thing wasn't for tourneys, it should say so very clearly right there with it on the accounts page. Good customer service (suchas at Bodog) would have said "Sorry about this problem, here is your money, but note for future reference that this feature is not..blah blah blah and we will not do this again. thanks for your business etc etc etc...

In the past week i have heard 3 people complain about ultimate and i know i will never go there i have heard numerous complaints and every person has lost money because of it i would say just cahs out and leave with 5 dollars less

GMB, I think you have just done it!
If they know nothing about customer satisfaction, and are willing to lose you
under these circumstances, then you have done all you can do by telling this story.
My guess is that it will cost them 10K by years end.

Aliengenius gave me some good advice by providing me with a link to a site that does conflict resolution. I dont know how to repost it here but you can check it out by following my thread on Challenging Pokersite Decisions.

I am very thankful that we have this group to help us out with our problems. Thanks a bunch people.

If you give me your UB screenname - and you can do that in a private message if you dont want to go public with it - I will contact memberservices@ultimatebet.com and get my friends to do the same thing and ask what's up with the poor customer relations. Not that my query will sway them because as everyone knows who read my thread they bogusly closed my account .... but I have some friends who are very high rakers and their emails will carry more weight. I encourage others to do the same if you think someone was taken advantage of. PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO DO IT - BECAUSE YOU COULD NEED OUR HELP SOMETIME FOR YOUR CAUSE. To me it's not the 5 dollars you lost - it's the principle of fairness. This doesnt even have to cost them any money - they can just give you a free token to another tourney.

The pokersites don't care about the individual as I have learned through personal experience but power comes in numbers. So I will do my part to try to help you - for what it's worth. I know that other members of UB who have active accounts at the site will carry more clout so I implore you to help out.

Elle

If all-in protection wasn't available in the tournament and you got disconnected, then it really isn't their fault. As a business, they can't give out money to everyone who asks even if it would be very nice. How does a dial-up connection and asking for free money = bad customer service? I realize your upset but, I don't think it's fair. That's my opinion...just be thankful it was only $5.50.

Be glad you don't have dial up wsorbust. I never believed what a nightmare that was until I had to babysit for my brother. After my nieces were asleep I tried to play cards using their dial up connection. This was before my poker days. I got disconnected ten times that evening.... and as a result my impeccable spades reputation got soiled with 10 disconnects which show on your icon as leaving a game before its completion (which people often do when they are losing - hey much like in poker if ya not sure you got the nutz and they GOT dc protection).

The point in my post, and I think green's point as well is not the 5 dollars, it's the fact that they could tell he was disconnected through no fault of his own - so why not give him a token for good will. How often have you been thrown from a game with your dsl or cable because the site had a problem with THEIR servers or decided to do maintenance. Don't ever underestimate the ill will a disgrunteld customer can cause a business. Even if just one person decides not to deposit at UB because of green's post they lost more than reimbursing him for being disconnected.

The way I see it anyway.

Two words: Get DSL.

But seriously, do you realize how many other requests they get regarding the same thing? If they were to take the responsibility upon themselves for every disconnect reported to them, it would drastically affect their profit. Like Wsorbust said, just feel lucky it was only $5.50.

FYI, I've been playing on UB for nearly 2 years. With my DSL, I've only been disco'd about 4 times and have never had a problem with their buttons. You should really look into getting DSL or such.

Lack of sympathy makes me GAG. Why is it that people are so self absorbed they can't see another perspective. BEEEEEEEEEEEEE THANKFUL YOU HAVE A STRONG CONNECTION. Put yourself in the shoes of the average Canadian who plays by dial up. Thank god I live in one of the few big cities in Canada that offer cable. It's a damn big country and only the big cities have services. I bet it's the same in Green's location.

And to answer your guestion. Good customer service costs them NOTHING - they just give him a free token to another tourney. But imagine the good will that would generate. At all the tables where the topic comes up Green can talk about how fairly he was treated.

Why does this crap bother me so much, somebody give me a sedative PLEASE.

Even if it's no one's fault, there's no way a poker company can give hand-outs to every person that gets disconnected anyway

lol. sure.

I can. I've had dial-up, and have been disconnected. I don't blame the poker company when my connection is haulted. I blame my connection.

I really don't know what you're gagging for. Yes, I'm saddened he got disconnected and lost his buy-in, but I'm supposed to be surprised when UB didn't give out free money?

If I had known that this feature was not available in their tourneys (they are the only ones that I play that limit this feature, Bodog surely does not. I had a similar problem at Bodog and it wasn't even a thought, the money was back in my account immediately, even though the connection issue was with my ISP) I would not play their sng's because I am on dial up and prone to d/c.

It's bad customer service because they do not easily disclose this little known fact about the all-in protection that they so clearly state on your accounts page : "You Have x of 2 All-In Protections Available"... it should say
"You Have x of 2 All-In Protections Available in Ring Games Only: NOTE-This Feature is not available in tournament play."

That simple.

No, they hide that fact in Item 21 of Paragraph something-teen of the Terms and Conditions of Tournament Play. Very misleading, intentionally I think since Tourney play is the biggest part of the biz...

It's bad customer service when a customer who has deposited hundreds of dollars has this experience ONCE, disputes the facts, asks for a minuscule refund, and they refuse. Now if I had done this over and over on separate incidents, that would be different, but 1st time??? And $5 to them is a drop in their loop-hole legal operation bucket anyway.

What if I were to report how they get around the US customer Visa use??? I know how they do it, they have done it several times for me. Another loophole they hop through that would slam shut so fast it would make their cocker spaniel sing Marilyn Manson.

Now there's a thought, eh... although it would do more to my friends lifestyle than I would want to do to them.

So you see, $5 for them to keep a customer happy and QUIET... I think that is a good investment on their part, and good customer service.

Well, bonehead, ever think I live in the sticks and dont have that option? Obviously not.... My name..Green Mtn Boy, IS infact an indication of the terrain I live in AND the state... all very rural and much without even a clear view of the souther sky for sat

Read more of my posts and get a clue... Its not like I hold them responsible for anything other than altering the facts of the hand history and the barely-disclosed fact that this all-in stuff is only good in ring games.

See above re:dsl... and If you decide to look, this is not the 1st spoken of this button issue. I first read it here on CC...

Remind me not to pay attention to your posts in the future...

The pokersites make soooooooo much money offa dial up players. I don't know the statistic but someone fabricate one for us will ya. Canada prolly has less than 1000 cities that have cable. The rest of the country plays by dial up. I bet the area in the USA that's serviced by dial up is huge as well.

The POINT as I see it is NOT about getting a hand out. It's about customer service. You are pi**ed enough already for being disconnected during a great hand - they can check that in the hand history - now what to do about making this customer feel better. You can't give him the chips back but YOU CAN GIVE HIM A FREE ENTRY TOKEN THAT COSTS YOU SPIT. And the payback for your site is GOOD WILL.

UB has already been demoted for their poor customer service by several online pokerroom raters. You would think they would try to improve their image if they can do it cheaply enough.

The way I see it anyway.

Whoa dude! Chill out! If you are going to get so bent out of shape when you get replies you don't agree with, then don't ask for "thoughts and suggestions" like you did above. I gave you my "thoughts" and this is what I get? Also, the meaning of your name is not as clear to the public as you think, with all the references to marijuana we have around here.

Excuse me for trying to help. Do you really think that more people want to give their suggestions now after they see how you might bash them? (and they sure don't want to make that chick GAG again) Good luck, sir.

Well, it does suck that you lost you $5 because you didn't know that all-in protection wasn't available for those games. And I'm not gonna come on here and tell you to get DSL because that is obviously not something that you can do.

But, did you really think they were going to refund your money? One thing that I am curious about is: have you used all-in protection while playing SnG's and MTT's before? Is this a new rule that they recently put in?

Also even if it is a new rule put in, they probably have a clause in thier terms and service agreement that state they can change anything whenever they feel like it. Do you keep yourself up to date with the terms of service, or did you read them in the first place?

I'm not trying to be an ass (though I'm sure the people who believe poker sites are all evil and out to get everyone will think so), I'm just trying to point out that as a buisness they have to protect themselves, and if they make this refund to you, then they would likely have to then refund thousands of similar cases which would make for a huge financial loss for them.

Either way, I have had no problems with Ultimate Bet and have found thier customer service to be fine. I had to call them with a question about my deposit not showing up right away and I got called back within an hour with the solution. Also my bonus dolaars didn't get credited to my account and I e-mailed them and the problem was solved within hours.

I feel bad for you Green Mtn Boy, it sucks to lose money no matter how small. But it isn't always a case of the big evil company forcing the little guy over backwards.

Well, I do apologize for the tone and texture of my response to you. First and foremost.... I was reactive and hey, Im still a bit tilted about the whole thing.

We do all have a right to our opinion, which applied to "that chick", who has had her own problems with UB, and is, as far as I can tell, a very nice person.

I mentioned that i had a connection issue at bodog during a sng there and they were quick to credit my account w/o question even tho it was my ISPs error. They obviously recognize the importance of a happy customer / danger of a disgruntled customer.


In any case, thank you for taking the time to give your input.

As I have repeatedly stated, in the "My Account" page it says "You Have 2 of 2 All-In Protections" Bodog has the same (no strings tho). So no, I did not know this. Yes it is apparantly new, judging from a statement in onw of their emails, "...this feature is no longer available in..."

Yes, I had read their TOS, maybe not so carefully, but as it is currently written, I think I would have seen it as it is its own line item and clearly states whay I feel should be on a line right along with the statement on the My Account page, not tucked away elsewhere.

Yes, I did. As I said in previous posts, I had a similar problem at Bodog once and it wasn't an issue, 10 minutes later my account was credited.

Yes, when I first started at UB I had d/c during a sng and it created a side pot. I still lost because it happened right after posting a call to BB pre-flop. Thats poker... I would have folded that hand post-flop anyway.

Apparently so......

I read them when I signed up. No I dint check for changes, do you regularly?

Its not like they are or would be advertising that they made an exception to keep a happy customer coming back. But 2x in one game, and folding out the best hand?? Then trying to say that "thier hand history shows I played it out" when I certainly did not.

I have, up till now, had great experience (with exception to my very 1st visit) with both the site and support. I had considered them (and played them) as one of two sites, the other being bodog. I dont like PS bonus structure and AP just blows in general (imho)

No, but this time sure feels like it...

Ok seems kinda shitty to me, thanks for clarifying a few things, hope it works out for you.

Do you not realize that d/c protection refers to being d/c due to the sites server and doesn't protect you if you have a bad connection and have been d/c because of your own service provider.
I understand how you feel, I have cable and every once in awhile the cable box reboots and I become d/c, and when in a tourney, I just look and curse at my cable box but I do not go to the site I was playing at and ask for a re-fund for the tourney because I know it wasn't the sites fault that I was d/c.
There were a few instances when pokerstars were having some server problems that affected some ppl playing tourneys and SnGs, there are those on this site who know what I'm talking about as some have been affected by this and b/c of this problem with the PS server, they got a refund and an apology.
My point is this, if you have a poor connection that has nothing to do with the sites server, then you are not entitled to a refund as it wasn't the sites fault that you were d/c...period.
Find a better service provider, preferably DSL.
Don't mean to sound harsh and if this is the way I come off, my apologies.

I think those who buy into your thinking are missing the point, no disrespect intended. From your perspective it's actually better for dialers not to play poker because you could get d/c during a crucial hand, and who wants to just throw away money. What a loss to poker sites this type of thinking would be.

The REAL point here is about customer service. What did UB have to lose to make Green Mtn Boy a happy camper. I SAY THEY HAD NOTHING TO LOSE - they could have given him and any other of the kazillion disconnectors a free token to a tourney. They pass out these free tokens regulary at most sites and they do at UB too in the form of Tourney Bucks to attract NEW customers. But how about keeping those who are playing for you faithfully, happy?

I KNOW online Poker is a business. I KNOW they can't give every dial d/c their money back. But every dial up d/c is not gonna ask for one blaming their own provider. Clearly, Mountain Boy was pi**ed by the fact that Ultimate Bet hid the changes to their rules from him. How would you feel if they changed something that was important to you and didn't send you an email to inform you about the change. (for example, would you be pi**ed if UB decided to change your rakeback from 32% to 10% and not tell you till you finished the month and discovered it for yourself). Oh sorry dear customer we no longer offer 32% rake back. Tell me you wouldn't be irrate if that happened and they didn't tell you about it till after the fact.

It would just seem so logical for the site to reimburse him because of his misfortune. Do they actually think they are gonna get another 5 bucks out of him after this treatment? So what have they accomplished. They pi**ed off yet another client, who is gonna make sure others hear about it. Do they no nothing about public relations?

Whether the complaing it unfounded or credible is not the operative thing here. Their first concern should be "how much is this decision gonna cost our site". Most sites have 100s of thousands of dollars in their advertising budgets - do individuals heed those costly adds? ... well good adds do attract attention... but is that the deciding factor... I think NOT...it often comes down to word of mouth - you ask your buddies "what do you think of so-and-so site" and if that answer is negative then all the thousands of add dollars in the world cant buy your support.

So the next time a disgruntled customer complains they should ask themselves "how much is this decision gonna cost the site in bad publicity?" Even if ONE person decides not to sign up to UB because of Green Mtn Boy's complaing they have lost way more than the price of a tourney token.

Now that you have somewhat clarified it, I feel that UB should have done something about this. True, they are running a business and they cant just give away money to whoever asks for it just because someone lost their connection. But I think I understand how you feel MTN when they change their policies and you dont know about it and end up not only losing 2 good pots but the SnG as well. Its not entirely unreasonable for you to ask your money back, in fact if UB values your business they would have given it back.

Clearly the poker site can check if what you said is true i.e. that you have deposited hundreds of dollars before and its the first time this as happened to you (technically through no fault of yours). Yes the poker site has the power to change their T & Cs without notification to its customers, but im sure everyone will agree here if I say thats unfair really, especially to someone who sincerely did not know. Of course the poker site can always claim they have the right not to pay because of that clause in the T & C and play strictly by the rules (and they would be right in doing that, no question) but one wonders, who loses in the end? The money you can make within seconds, but a soiled reputation, even to a few players, you almost can't or can never get it back, and a few players might seem trivial and unsignificant, but it adds up.

Sometimes its all about a little give and take, people with good business sense will always listen to the customer first and give them the benefit of the doubt and that is clearly not the case here. I think they play and stick by their rules too rigidly and they are very critical and judgemental about player's complaints and they treat every complaint as if the player making it was a wrongdoer or troublemaker right from the start and not someone genuinely seeking for help, somehow what they do is always justified and correct and the players (especially those asking for money back) are bad and unreasonable. That is not good business.

Theres a saying that you can tell how good and civilised a country is by the way it takes care of the welfare of its poor, old and unfortunate. Im not saying MTN that youre poor and unfortunate nor old (lol) but im sure you guys know what I mean. Once when I went to court I saw this poor woman asking for an entitlement to a man's estate (who died without a Will), she was eventually turned down because she wasnt legally married to that guy even though shes been with him for almost 10 years and had taken care of him when he was sick. All his assets went to his wife whom he had seperated but not legally divorced from. The judge had no choice because the courts are supposed to be a court of the law, not a court of morals, so much for justice (no wonder shes blindfolded).

Anyway Im sorry I couldnt come up with a better example, but since Im a probate lawyer I see this happening all the time and the moral is if you are going to stick to the rules all the time, there is bound to be injustice and I feel in this case there was indeed one, Ive just been back after a long break from poker and Ive heard more complaints about UB than all other sites put together (excuse my ignorance if this is not the case). Some might be fake or self-induced problems but some of it has to be true and genuine right? I do think UB needs to look at how its staff treats its customers and do something about it or change their policy towards complaints, else they will have a bleak future indeed.

Not sure where you play, but at bodog and UB (now only at ring games, a recent unannounced change) that d/c protect is just that, if you loose your connection, whatever you had on the table becomes as if you were all in and goes to a side pot. However, if the d/c is on their side, everyone at the table is credited or in the case of Bodog, if they break down during your tourney, places are paid out according to chip stac at the time of d/c.
If you read a little closer, its not just the d/c that has me tilted... its the fact that the 'final hand' I got back on just as action was coming back to me on the river. I quickly as possible tried to fold that hand and instead it called someonelses all-in. It was the 1st d/c earlier in the game that I had a K high flush and it folded my hand.



Again, if you re-read (because Im getting tired of repeating myself) I do not have any other option. I live on 5 acres out in the Green Mountain National Forest. Im lucky I have just enuf of the portion of the sky where the Dish Net sat is. I cant even get HughsNet (affiliated with DirecTV). There is a project underway that is using strategically located the wind towers of some area residents to beam a broadband signal to our little interior valley. It a coop project of some well-to-do locals and Middlebury College. Its innovative and will be my answer to dial up when it starts up next month.