Are TV poker tournaments rigged?

#1 31st July 2007, 4:21 AM

It's time to ruffle some feathers and start a controversial discussion. The title of my new thread says it all. Do you think any of the televised poker games are rigged in any way?

First tell me what you guys think and then I'll join the talk as I see fit.

PS - If you do not wish to elaborate just use the poll.

#2 31st July 2007, 4:22 AM

#3 31st July 2007, 4:36 AM

Something most people don't realise is that the commentary is done after the game has been played. Once they see the video of the hole cards they do their commentary. To add excitement they sometimes......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .............
.................................................. ...............................................
.................................................. ......NO it's not rigged, too many people involved....cameramen, production crew, the players themselves, dealers, etc, etc. If anyone came forward saying any of the coverage was rigged the general media would be all over it. Hasn't happened.

#4 31st July 2007, 4:40 AM

obviously its not rigged...why would u even think that? poker live is not that much different than online. other than its wayyyy slower and the bad beats happen live just as much as online. its almost the same. other than live its easier to make reads on ppl by how they react and stuff like that

#5 31st July 2007, 4:40 AM

why would you even bring this discussion up? its not controversial, its retarded.

#6 31st July 2007, 4:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by break17

why would you even bring this discussion up? its not controversial, its retarded.

^^^^this^^^^,voted no because "stupid thread" wasn't an option.

#7 31st July 2007, 5:12 AM

I vote this thread is stupid...

How the hell do u rig live poker?

#8 31st July 2007, 5:19 AM

#9 31st July 2007, 6:06 AM

Not rigged in the way he is suggesting but I'm sure there are some players who make deals with each other.

#10 31st July 2007, 6:43 AM

It is obviously rigged. No way Jamie Gold could've won if it wasn't.

/sarcasm off

#11 31st July 2007, 7:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkadiy

It is obviously rigged. No way Jamie Gold could've won if it wasn't.

/sarcasm off

I can see how you could feel that, but one event you can be sure's not is the ME you hafta realize that when you watch like the final table coverage on ESPN, it don't really happen that way. You only ever see 10-15% ofthe action at most. This years FT, for example; ESPN will cover the whole of it in 2 hours tops; I had the live feed on for a loong time, and between the 5th place finisher and the 4th place finisher going out, there was 4-5 hours of hands played, took more than 7 hours altogether counting breaks. And you'll never see a second of that on the TV coverage, 'cause most of it was boring.

So, when you look at last year's coverage, it looks like J Gold won every hand and sucked out on 90% of the pots; 'tain't exactly how it happened.

#12 31st July 2007, 9:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinedown.45

voted no because "stupid thread" wasn't an option.

2nd this.

Polls past few days have all fit the "stupid thread" category.

#13 31st July 2007, 9:04 AM

ive know ppl for years who dealt cards for a living and said they could control the game when there dealing. i mean if you dealt cards 10 hours a day for years couldnt you pull them and some of live is rigged bc of dealers and such

#14 31st July 2007, 9:09 AM

Haha jesus christ come on. Why do people play poker seriously. It is so often where someone thinks there is cheating, rigging, or something going on with it. Why can't you guys accept the fact that shit is not rigged. Read some books, practice, start becoming a winning poker and I SWEAR you will never ask another rigged question. I didn't vote because this is just stupid. Especially this guy right above me, like are you serious? Have you ever heard of a casino? Cameras, security, etc? Dealers want to get paid and tipped, that is all.

#15 31st July 2007, 11:52 AM

Planet Earth is Rigged

#16 31st July 2007, 12:12 PM

Yes Yes Yes. As long as people have been playing cards for money there has been, is, and always will be cheaters. They just busted a ring in June at the Borgata in AC. Check this out......

Poker Cheating Group Arrested,Borgata, FBI, Steve Forte - rec.gambling.poker | Google Groups

#17 31st July 2007, 12:42 PM

not rigged... someone would pick up on it, you are talking about seasoned pro's and plus the media coverage. if someone caught a cheat it'd be headline news. so no!

#18 31st July 2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack43ACC

not rigged... someone would pick up on it, you are talking about seasoned pro's and plus the media coverage. if someone caught a cheat it'd be headline news. so no!

Maybe you should read the post right above you.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.g...227264eb76281c

Here ya go.

#19 31st July 2007, 2:45 PM

No its not rigged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by premierplayer

I vote this thread is stupid...

How the hell do u rig live poker?

^ Its probably just as easy as rigging online poker.

#20 31st July 2007, 2:55 PM

rigel what did your post prove? that cheaters got caught... so yea they got caught... which would mean they got caught?

#21 31st July 2007, 3:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrrigel

Maybe you should read the post right above you.

Poker Cheating Group Arrested,Borgata, FBI, Steve Forte - rec.gambling.poker | Google Groups

Here ya go.

You must have missed how the cheating was NOT connected to the tournament itself in any way. These were private games set up as side action in someones suite.

ps this is fairly old news by now.

#22 31st July 2007, 3:02 PM

big time wrestling is rigged and people still watch it. we are in trouble when they stop calling something a sport and call it entertainement

#23 31st July 2007, 3:04 PM

yea, i mean i understand if you are getting cheated at a private game. that can happen all the time. i'm sure you've seen the ESPN show Tilt with Madsen. Just runs a guy who sits in on a cash game with him, and has like 4 guys helping him. Definitely possible given the right situation, but tournament play I just don't see it happening.

#24 31st July 2007, 4:58 PM

At the time of this writing 72% of visitors voted "No, all the TV poker games are 100% squeaky clean". This result does not surprise me. I already have a pretty good idea what the public thinks about those games, from conversations with people.

Since there are already several replies I think it's a good time to make a comment. I just wish that some of the replies were less antagonistic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcanuck

NO it's not rigged, too many people involved...

Well, how many people do you need to rig a game? The answer is always, a minimum of one person. I agree that it would be difficult to keep things under the hat if too many people were involved, but the fact is, one does not need to involve too many people.

OK, it would be virtually impossible for one person to rig the WSOP single-handedly (note the use of the word "virtually") but you still don't need to involve too many people to work a scam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcanuck

...If anyone came forward saying any of the coverage was rigged the general media would be all over it. Hasn't happened.

...hasn't happened, yet. We know that no such story has been in the media, yet, but that doesn't prove that there is no rigging.

Quote:

Originally Posted by premierplayer

I vote this thread is stupid...

How the hell do u rig live poker?

With all due respect, if you don't know how to do it that doesn't mean it can't be done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pezjb

Why can't you guys accept the fact that shit is not rigged. Read some books, practice, start becoming a winning poker and I SWEAR you will never ask another rigged question.

I will ignore for a second all your insults and make a quick comment to your valuable post.

FYI I have been reading and collecting gambling books for the past 20+ years and have a huge library that is constantly overflowing (that includes some rare historic books that I am sure you've never heard of). I also happen to have been around the block a few times and have learned from sources beyond what is written in the books. Since gambling has been my #1 occupation throughout my entire adult life, I have access to a wealth of people and information that I am willing to bet you will never even have a chance to come close to. Furthermore, I have visited casinos and gambling joints all over the world (usually on business) and have clients that are casino owners. I also happen to be on first-name basis with one of the people who was in charge of wiring-up the cameras for the WSOP, for a few years.

So, I find it a bit ridiculous when a 20-year old rookie (that had obviously been introduced to poker through the movie Rounders) starts giving me advice in an arrogant (not to mention ignorant) tone. My official career in the gambling industry started around the time you were wearing diapers. If you want to disagree with me, feel free to do so, but it would be kindly appreciated if you could refrain from being arrogant. But feel free to make a contribution to this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by muddawgg

big time wrestling is rigged and people still watch it.

This precisely brings me to a point that I was hoping to make.

In another thread I describe how poker has always been a rigged game. This is not just my personal opinion. This is a historical fact that has been documented in books, articles, etc...

Now let's compare poker to some other competitive sports. I don't even want to mention professional wrestling, since it is obviously rigged (and ridiculous). But let's look at honorable sports such as the Olympic Games, the Tour de France and so on. The biggest fear, for decades, has been that the players may be cheating. Despite the fact that there is so much drug testing, every so often (very frequently, actually) there is a scandalous news article that someone tested positive for whatever drugs or stimulants.

As some have already mentioned in their posts, there has never been any media coverage about cheating in big-money televised poker games. There has been mention of chips counts being off, just for several millions, but it is all brushed off as some honest mistake while they were coloring out the chips. But there has never (yet) been any direct mention of cheating. Yet, unlike the honorable competitive sports, poker is just about money and the whole game has a history of cheating. Let's not ignore the fact that throughout this history, most people were actually unaware of any cheating going on.

So, now that the popularity of poker has blown out of proportions, we must accept the fact that cheaters have lost interest and the game has cleaned up overnight.

Since I did say, in my opening statement of my initial post, that this thread would ruffle some feathers, I will ignore all the insulting remarks. If people want to disagree or state their opinions, they are more than welcome to do so. This is what a bulletin board is for. But I really don't see any reason for hostility.

#25 31st July 2007, 5:08 PM

mr. pink you can't compare other sports with poker. It doesn't apply IMO at all being an avid sports fan. It's like apples and oranges.

#26 31st July 2007, 5:16 PM

Mr. Pink, I have not seen anywhere in this post where you actual are making the claim the televised poker tournaments are rigged or that cheating is going on. Is that a claim that you are making, or are you simply implying that the possibility exists?

#27 31st July 2007, 5:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

At the time of this writing 72% of visitors voted "No, all the TV poker games are 100% squeaky clean". This result does not surprise me. I already have a pretty good idea what the public thinks about those games, from conversations with people.

Since there are already several replies I think it's a good time to make a comment. I just wish that some of the replies were less antagonistic.

Well, how many people do you need to rig a game? The answer is always, a minimum of one person. I agree that it would be difficult to keep things under the hat if too many people were involved, but the fact is, one does not need to involve too many people.

OK, it would be virtually impossible for one person to rig the WSOP single-handedly (note the use of the word "virtually") but you still don't need to involve too many people to work a scam.

...hasn't happened, yet. We know that no such story has been in the media, yet, but that doesn't prove that there is no rigging.

With all due respect, if you don't know how to do it that doesn't mean it can't be done.

I will ignore for a second all your insults and make a quick comment to your valuable post.

FYI I have been reading and collecting gambling books for the past 20+ years and have a huge library that is constantly overflowing (that includes some rare historic books that I am sure you've never heard of). I also happen to have been around the block a few times and have learned from sources beyond what is written in the books. Since gambling has been my #1 occupation throughout my entire adult life, I have access to a wealth of people and information that I am willing to bet you will never even have a chance to come close to. Furthermore, I have visited casinos and gambling joints all over the world (usually on business) and have clients that are casino owners. I also happen to be on first-name basis with one of the people who was in charge of wiring-up the cameras for the WSOP, for a few years.

So, I find it a bit ridiculous when a 20-year old rookie (that had obviously been introduced to poker through the movie Rounders) starts giving me advice in an arrogant (not to mention ignorant) tone. My official career in the gambling industry started around the time you were wearing diapers. If you want to disagree with me, feel free to do so, but it would be kindly appreciated if you could refrain from being arrogant. But feel free to make a contribution to this thread.

This precisely brings me to a point that I was hoping to make.

In another thread I describe how poker has always been a rigged game. This is not just my personal opinion. This is a historical fact that has been documented in books, articles, etc...

Now let's compare poker to some other competitive sports. I don't even want to mention professional wrestling, since it is obviously rigged (and ridiculous). But let's look at honorable sports such as the Olympic Games, the Tour de France and so on. The biggest fear, for decades, has been that the players may be cheating. Despite the fact that there is so much drug testing, every so often (very frequently, actually) there is a scandalous news article that someone tested positive for whatever drugs or stimulants.

As some have already mentioned in their posts, there has never been any media coverage about cheating in big-money televised poker games. There has been mention of chips counts being off, just for several millions, but it is all brushed off as some honest mistake while they were coloring out the chips. But there has never (yet) been any direct mention of cheating. Yet, unlike the honorable competitive sports, poker is just about money and the whole game has a history of cheating. Let's not ignore the fact that throughout this history, most people were actually unaware of any cheating going on.

So, now that the popularity of poker has blown out of proportions, we must accept the fact that cheaters have lost interest and the game has cleaned up overnight.

Since I did say, in my opening statement of my initial post, that this thread would ruffle some feathers, I will ignore all the insulting remarks. If people want to disagree or state their opinions, they are more than welcome to do so. This is what a bulletin board is for. But I really don't see any reason for hostility.

Damn, Carl! You really did go to that punctuation and spelling course!!! Good for you!

#28 31st July 2007, 5:24 PM

same thought here genius... his post is too vague and really takes no position. yes the possibility exists with anything. nothing is ever 100%, that's why it is called odds (probability). i'm sure being a poker player you've heard of it.

#29 31st July 2007, 5:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reglardave

I can see how you could feel that, but one event you can be sure's not is the ME you hafta realize that when you watch like the final table coverage on ESPN, it don't really happen that way. You only ever see 10-15% ofthe action at most. This years FT, for example; ESPN will cover the whole of it in 2 hours tops; I had the live feed on for a loong time, and between the 5th place finisher and the 4th place finisher going out, there was 4-5 hours of hands played, took more than 7 hours altogether counting breaks. And you'll never see a second of that on the TV coverage, 'cause most of it was boring.

So, when you look at last year's coverage, it looks like J Gold won every hand and sucked out on 90% of the pots; 'tain't exactly how it happened.

What the hell is a hafta??

#30 31st July 2007, 5:41 PM

he means have to

#31 31st July 2007, 5:50 PM

Is there cheating going on - examples?

Its ok to mention Athletics, Cycling - these have been abused to gain a physical advantage, Wrestling well need i say anything

Ok so the chip counts may be abused but when you say cheating you still need a bit more than a chip count advantage to win.

Are you talking card deck fixing (take into account the cardmaster machine now in use) or producers putting the more well known players in the limelight - thats called getting the ratings.

Why should we think the tv games are any less straight than they appear?
After all at the end of the day we are watching for entertainment purposes.

Is it the larger MTTs you are directing the Tv question at or the several STTs made for Tv games - as often in poker one question is often replaced by another

#32 31st July 2007, 6:12 PM

Ordered the FT coverage as well. People are so spoiled with everything on tv... it just shows action. When in reality every pot isn't action. When it gets to final table, so much raising and folding going on.

#33 31st July 2007, 6:16 PM

well yea wolf...they record the whole thing then they just leave the parts where there is action. if they show every hand then nobody would watch because it would be to boring to watch. everyone likes to see someone go all in or someone make take down a big pot.

#34 31st July 2007, 6:46 PM

I refuse to vote based on the 67th amendment. Thou shalt not be required to vote for persons or issues that have no relevance.

#35 25th August 2007, 2:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack43ACC

same thought here genius... his post is too vague and really takes no position. yes the possibility exists with anything.

Right. In any ontological argument ("does x exist") it isn't incumbent on the party poker arguing 'no' to make the case; rather those who would claim 'yes, x exits' are the ones that need to provide convincing evidence.

: Do you think televised poker games are rigged?
Yes, I think they are all rigged in one way or another.		0%
I think some of them are definitely rigged.		4.76%
I am not sure, but some of them make me wonder.		11.90%
I don't think they are rigged but I think some players try to cheat.		16.67%
No, all the TV poker games are 100% squeaky clean.		66.67%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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