Trash talking - is it a good `tool`?

I got to admit it, I trash talk all the time

For me I feel it works in the following ways....

• After a bad beat - it makes me feel better to vent
• When I have sucked out on a decent player - I`m trying to push that person into making a mistake
• A big stack `bully` - so that they will call my raises when I have a good hand to show they won`t let me talk to them that way
• Someone who has lost a hand to another player cause I want them to make more bad plays

I`m sure the list goes on and on.

Would be interested to know your thoughts as to if you think it is a good `tool`

Personally I think that if you have time to trash talk then you are losing focus from areas of your game that you should be focusing on. Trash talking usally comes from a place of miseducation about the game and frustration that things are not going your way.

I find myself doing it sometimes now, when I never used to, maybe I dont have the right mindset for poker.......

Its all about picking your time to trash talk.
No point trash talking when u have nothing to gain.
By `trash talking` I might be saying the wrong thing.
What I say will depend on the situation.
For example, if I have raised on the button, then woke up with an even better hand next time and pushed and everyone has folded, I will then make people think I am just some kind of maniac fish, saying something like "See, no one has the balls to call the master at this table"
Then, next time u wake up with a good - premium hand people will start to get frustrated. The amount of times I do this, then wake up with say AQ, push all in and get called by A4 or QJ type of hand u would not believe.

but is it worth using the tool of being a "tool" to entice one bad call a session?

and couldn't you just as easily induce a sick call that beats you?

to me it's hard to trash talk without coming across as a whiner ... if you're just confident and telling the table to save themselves time and just ship their chips, well that might be OK ... being confident is very acceptable in competitions

but if you are doing the "Hellmuth" bit saying ... omg, how do you call with that, you donkey ... i find that most of the time the player "trash talking" just got out-played or any suk out was nothing more than a short stack needing to make a stand and playing a reasonable hand and then, yes, getting lucky ... or a big stack willing to risk a chance to knock out without the most premium hand ... again, acceptable play

It really depends on the type of players you're playing with. I have seen Jamie Gold pull it off quite successfully with seasoned pros. I'd say amateurs can easily get out of their game and pros would read your every move. Like any poker strategy, I think the correct answer is, "it depends on who you're playing".

I guess there are times when it can have a positive effect, but you're completely ignoring the potential negative effects.

What about the times your trash talk makes a fish get up and leave the table? You were probably better off with them in the game.

What about the fish who didn't realise they were bad until you trash talked them? You were definitely better off when they were oblivious.

On the whole, I think you're better off not doing it. Particularly online, where it's so hard to judge how someone is reacting and derive any benefit from it.

We always get the "Holier than thou" responses on this forum - "I would never trash talk because its just not nice"

As I said in my second post I don`t think I mean "Trash" talk as such - believe me, I do not want the fish to leave my table.

I`m on about getting the fish to the point they will start to push to catch.

What I`m talking about is the point efutures made about Jamie Gold.

I have to say Roller, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I do not know any "good losers" who are top in their chosen field and I don`t know any people who to get to the top have not tried to do that by any means, be it foul or fair.

Yes it definitely works. IMHO. For example, at the time when I'm involved in some big pot and need to make a decision and if some guy will start talk shit at that time, this is it. it will affect my decision and more likely not in a right way. Cause my mind switches from thinking about the hand to a frustration, and by that time somebody already calls a clock !!! BUSTARDS

meh, i have always lived (or tried ) by the rule of "don't tap the glass". meaning don't make the fish aware of -EV plays.
you definitely don't want to scare the fish into playing better against you or worse... upsetting them to the point they quit.

it's not always easy taking a beating but i think it's important to keep the games friendly.
the fish are there to have fun and in-return you get their money in the long run.
make the fish happy and you will have deeper pockets.

'hound dog' imo

Not into it at all. Have found myself berating players in the past & know it's counter-productive. I actually don't mind making them feel good about folding, getting it in bad, etc. etc. I also get extremely pissed when I see someone berating the fish on the table.. -ev.

Is trash talk a tool or just make you one?

I agree trash talking has its place. So many times when about 3 spots until the money, the trash talkers agitate each other, and they both have 10 times the chips that I do, and one will take out the other so I can money without playing a hand. I love it.

There's a certain type of donk who trash talks, they're the ones whose money I like the most

+ 1

*cough Barry Greenstein is just one example of many cough*

Holier than thou - meh

Jamie Gold - Thats why it's no longer allowed


"Trash talk" is considered just that - unwanted verbal abuse from another player.


"good losers" by any means - Justification of improper conduct is still improper conduct.

If the slight edge you gain by trash talking is worth the justification of improper conduct then by all means justify and take your edge. Do whatever is needed for the win, after all nothing else matters.

Psychological Meta game is 100% expectable.
Maybe the Title should be changed - Do you use Psychology to create an edge.

Dunno-


obv
Simple thoughts are from simple minds.
Mine are both ....

Trash talking is stupid and -EV.

If you make a fish leave or play better, you're just a bad player.

Also, trash talking can reveal a ton of information to an observant player.

Watch HSP sometime and observe how BG and Esfandiari keep the fish happy.

I think it can be a good tool if the other player is a person without control. I have to say that when I'm stress a trash talk from other player can make me lose my mind, but usually I only laugh about it and don't comment anything to the other player.

Overrated. Most guys trash talking at the tables are telling me far more about their game than they are having an effect on mine.

It can work for you but it can also work against you ...personally ill pass the benefit that you gain is not going to be significant not likely going to tilt a solid player and just take away while your typing some nonesense , from the things you should be focused on that will benefit far more than trash talk...Now if youre in a home game where everyone is buddys I get it but than of course i would do that to freinds even if i wasnt playing poker...In short the cons are greater than the pros..put the trash talk in the trash Respect will get you futher and leave you open to concentrate on why you are there to have fun winning.

i like to trash talk to and i dont mean to do it tho. Its like it comes natural. lol but sometimes i go to far and im quick to say sorry. Trash talking is good tho keeps things upbeat and going good

Observer your opponents and how they play, play your best and keep your mouth shut.

Just my way of doing it, so the above statement should be more "this is what I do".

Use poker to make players make a mistake. Not words. If they are bad enough to begin with, words wont make them play worse. They already play bad..... And if they are good, why bother???? not to mention a good player may use your attempt to "tilt" them against you.

for me if someone is taking crazzy i will mess with them... lol..... but i don't let people get undre my skin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

would you trash talk in a live game.....no i dont like it its not cool...and its dumb

Berating another's play is not my nature, live or online.

So what's left is how I react: online I pay no attention whatsoever; live, I just feel sorry for trash talkers and know that 9 times out of 10 they'll be gone before the first break in a tourney or lose their roll in a cash game even faster than that.

Television antics notwithstanding, only a tiny percentage of players who trash talk consistently are winning players over the long haul.

I suggest the OP check out this thread: Ask Mental Game Coach Jared Tendler

It is nice to see we have so many people on this site who are so solid with their game they basically never go on tilt, no matter what.

It then must follow, without me checking, that everyone responding is also a winning player, great!!!

Nice one

TBH buddy, I have read as much as I need to read about poker, I enjoy watching the game on TV, I read bits on this forum. The amount for me to be gained by reading that is very little atm.

I could start off another thread relating to `Poker coaches` at my level.
I play ring games, SNG`s and MTT on 3 sites (well, 2 now because of the FT situation) I have not deposited on any of the sites for a long, long time (about 2 years or more) I have withdrawn about $2,500 this year (no big shakes but not bad for a bit of a hobby)
My point is, I make a profit playing poker. Yes, using a poker coach I could make more. However, what I think is always overlooked on this site and lots of other sites is that games or sports are not an exact science, so you need a certain amount of natural ability - the best 100m coach in the World will not make someone into an Olympic 100m Champion unless they run very fast in the first place.

No offense sir, but if your so good at poker and dont need any advice, why is it your an Elvis impersonator for a living( thats what your sig says), and not a pro poker player....Fair question given that you have shot down basically everyone who disagreees with your point of view on trash talk.

When I hear trash talk when I am playing, all it does is make me want to take that person out! My very 1st win on Stars was against a guy that called me every name under the sun. I was polite back, but finally got to go HU against him & I won! It was the perfect pay back! I did a thread about it about 1 1/2 years ago. It was one of my most satisfying wins!

Fair question and I will answer straight
If money was not the object and someone said "You can only be Elvis full time or play poker full time" I would always play Elvis - I see poker as a hobby only - no offence intended to people who play poker full time.

Second, I doubt out of all the people who profess to playing poker as a job, many really do, or at least not to the extent I do with my various shows - so money, basically

Third, I was not asking for advice as such, I was interested to know what people though, nothing more, nothing less.

Forth - I don`t know how u determine someone is good or bad at poker. All I know is that I don`t deposit and I withdraw every few months - If I`m good or bad or not I don`t know because I don`t track how often I play - I could be making $0.01 per hour for all I know

Finally, I do believe that a lot of people on this forum and other poker forums give you a text book answer "I would never"...It is my opinion that these very same people say they don`t get put off when really they do

Hope that answers your question my friend, and no offence taken

So, going back to the thread...this is exactly the response I want from someone I`m trying to put off their game " all it does is make me want to take that person out!" it is now too late for Maid Marian to say this is anything more than your emotions getting the better of you and it will effect your play.

BTW, it wasnt me, was it???

I doubt it...unless you're bigboy102379 on Stars!

Here's a link to my thread:
http://www.cardschat.com/f46/maid-ma...st-mtt-165077/ (http://www.cardschat.com/f46/maid-marian-wins-her-first-mtt-165077/)

However the league games are another thing...we all kid around, but we're not vicious with each other.

I do agree though that it can tilt someone to put them off their game. I guess I'm too polite to say anything bad to anyone.

Why have chat on?
[ ] check boxes are cool
[x] Thread\

I think that I might be a bit upset at the outcome of a big hand if I lost. I don't really care what some anonymous person on a poker site thinks. So, it is pretty much lost on me. The actions bother me a lot more than someone's intentions. It might work on someone who has no understanding of the game. It is a good tool if you can make an opponent do something he would not ordinarily do and if it is to his detriment to do so. When I play at the Indian casino I laugh when the talker wins and I laugh when the talker loses.

You asked fore opinions on what people think. I, as many others, did just that. I stated my thought on the subject.

Di I never go on tilt? Do I never make mistakes? Hmmmmm, I will leave this up to you to answer. (Just a hint - even the best players, of which I am not one, make mistakes and go on tilt sometimes)

I dont think anyone was insinuating that they are so solid that they never go on tilt. And even a player who is still learning and not yet a winning player can have the right attitude and objectives. BUT, it seems a number of players have a possible metagame in the forefront of their table persona, and that leaves trash talking out of priorities of what to do in the small amount of time they have. For them. If trash talking is on your list of things to consider when trying to reach your best playing goals, then thats your list. Follow it.

No need to read such arrogance into some pretty sober and solid responses IMO.....