Tournies vs Ring proposal

I play Tournies and avoid Ring games like the plague. Main reason is I'm cheap. I want the thrill of the game without the unexpected losses.

For this reason I propose a simple idea. When discussing HH's or play theories, a statement of whether the writer is Tourney centric, or Ring centric could be insightful.

The game might be the same, but the play will NOT BE!

In tournies the overridding theme is to survive, with a healthy dose of thrive.

In ring games I have endured, the theme seems to be to different, and I am not sure how because I haven't had the bankroll to investigate. Any insight to that would be helpful.

I can see where a good ring player could make much more ROI than a tourney player, and imagine stats would prove me out. However, a good tourney (SNG included) player will do fine but at a greatly reduced ROI, and $ per hour rate. But his losses could be controlled much more precisely.

As for this thread, besides the proposal, perhaps a discussion on your thinking along these 2 similar but different philosophies would be good.

Last thought...Should SNG's be treated in still a 3rd way?

Like you I tend to avoid ring games for the same reasons. I have tried a few times and done quite well in spurts, but I look around and I am down a bunch. Still working on figuring it out.

I prefer tournaments over ring games for certain reasons. In ring games, it is very easy to lose a lot of money quickly because you can keep buying in over and over again. Plus, tournaments provide a wide range of experience because of the changing of blinds and the number o people left in the tournament. In my mind, tournaments are the way to go, with small buy-ins and huge payouts

Online I pretty much play stricly SnGs and occasional MTTs. The ring games online just don't have the same spark for me, and I don't feel like grinding when I'm at home playing on the internet. I'd much rather play an SnG.

Live however, I prefer the cash tables over the tourneys.

One, because I love live so much, over online, that doesn't matter what type of game it is, there is that spark and excitement.

Two, because I don't exactly have the time, except on weekends, to sit at a poker table for a long enough time to play tourneys live.

Three, I make a decent amount of profit at the cash tables from tourists that just love to give me their money.

The biggest difference is that in a cash game you can just reload when you lose your stack. Time investment and the large payouts at the end don't exist. You can bomb all day with JJ or 1010 and double up or reload.

Tournaments are all about survival. In a tournament they maybe that remote chance where laying down AA will have a +EV to you. That will never happen in a cash game. You should always be all-in with AA preflop.

I play mostly ring games with the occasional tourney and sng. I would definitely consider myself a much better cash game player then tourney player.

For me cash games are more about limiting losses and waiting for that time when you have an all in push in front of you with the nuts. It will happen if you are at the table long enough. It's about stacking someone here and there, and limiting losses. It's not as difficult for me to know when to lay a monster down in a ring game then it is in a tourney for some reason.

I like the fact that I can play 3 to 4 tables in ring games with a TAG approach, not worrying about having to lay down a big hand because time, blinds going up, etc aren't a factor. I can wait for my hands without being stressed about making a move. In other words if you flop your set and you are almost sure someones drawing to their flush and you see that hit on the river, you can just lay it down knowing that you can get it back. You have all day to pick a better spot.

I definitely rely more on implied odds in ring games which may not be the correct philosophy but works out well for me.

I feel to much pressure to make a move in a tourney, and don't feel that in ring games.

You live in Vegas? I'm mostly interested in something almost forgotten - limit holdem tournaments...
Is it possible to find live limit tourney in Vegas? How often? I mean, if I come and stay a week or ten days, how many tourneys I can expect to find?

Try this site
Las Vegas Poker Tournament Schedule

Well, thank you very much!

Certainly most of the threads posted here differentiate between tourney and ring play and between SnG and MTTs. Though sometimes there are generic points that are more broadly applicable (neither ring nor MTTs are in fact rigged*).

I'm an ok cash player but I certainly don't have much clue when it comes to the subtleties of ring games. The principles of odds etc are the same but a really successful long term game is a very different beast. This explains why though I find FPs posts both cool and interesting I seldom respond cause they are usually ring-based.

I would disagree that tournies are about surviving. They are about making the final table (and really top 3), this requires putting all your chips with far less than the nuts a lot. Playing MTTs with survival as the goal results in lots of finishes just before and just after the bubble. Obviously you need to survive to make the final table, but it's not the defining characteristic of MTT play. I don't subscribe to the view that tight is right early in MTTs, so this may not be a widely held view.

I also agree that SnGs (single table at least) are a world apart from MTTs. In the early stages they are about either folding or doubling up as far as I can tell. Later they have their own particular strategies around short-handed play and very big blinds which you only occassionally encounter in MTTs. The aggression required in SnG end game is unique I think.

I reckon it would be possible to find a hand with the same chip stacks, position etc where the correct move in a SnG would be to fold, in Ring it would be to call and in an MTT to raise.



*apart from goataments

IMHO, you'll never be a complete player until you learn the ring game mentality. Did you ever see Phil Hellmuth on the "High Stakes Poker" show? He flounders badly in cash games. Try micro stakes until you become confident. 1c/2c tables are only a $2 buy-in. I wrote an article a while back on how your stakes level affects your mindset:

Stick's Poker Blog: Your Stakes Level DOES Matter: Bankroll Psychology II

Good luck.