Totally CHEATING!

im sick of getting bombed because my stats are minus R.O.I...its not fair at all to have edge and scope etc...at a table and I dont even think its legal to use it. imagine going into a casino and everyone has a sign stuck over thier heads with R.O.I ITM'S etc... its horse chit and im mucking pissed about it. does anyone else think this is fair? or am I being stupid?. let me know

idk what you just said but im gonna guess you're mad that people are scouting you... which is dumb... so yea you are being stupid...

Who cares what other players see. If you know you are a bad player then learn to not be a bad player. I am curretnly a losing player and if someone finds a site that confirms that so what? I already know it, but they don't know why or how I am losing. Let them think I am donk I don't care and that can be used to your advantage as well.

I can't find two sites that have the same ROI or Itm. Sharkscope says i have a itm of 25% and online poker rankings puts it at 30%, they have a ways to go before they are giving reliable information in my opinion.

One is MTTs and the other is SnGs.

I've been using OPR for years and it's always been 100% accurate for MTTs.

If you are a good player and people think you are a bad one then it is surely to your advantage. If you are a bad player, then read more and learn stuff to become a good one

umm SS tracks sit n gos and opr tracks mtts so the stats will obviously differ.

edit: i b slow

your right steve I will use that to my advantage. Im a damn good player and muckets your right too! every day my R.O.I. changes on O.P.R. its not accurate at all. still dont like the constant attacks though haha! want them to run not chase ya know?

OPR stats are 100% accurate, but by no means tell you if you're a good player or bad. I'm still in negative ROI I believe. It can take a very very long time before a player starts showing profit. I know I'm good, I've won 3 mtt's, but it's all the other shit I did before I got good at poker that makes my stats as ugly as they are

OPR doesnt track private tournements

Um, so?

You said there stats where 100% acurate and obvs. there not if the dont track private games

Ah ok lol, well 100% accurate for scheduled mtt's then

lol no problem,sorry about beeing a nit

Besides you need to remember that all the stats are history. Everyone is improving or at least i like to think so.

I think it would be amusing to be a good player, a very good player, who would start out at the lower levels, let's say $25NL playing like a total fish. Then move up to the correct levels, whatever they are, $100NL or more and play normally hoping that people do use the online tools.

Personally I think all the online tools are effectively cheating. So I never look at my opponents. Or myself for that matter. I'm sure I'm pretty awful in any event.

OPR now tracks STT's/MTT's/HU stats, for Full tilt only ATM

I love when people think I suck for some reason. From a stats site or past play or whatever. I think that sets them up to underestimate me.

I don't really see why your getting upset, is it because ppl make fun of you at the tables? Lets look at the situation differently ok, bare with me plz, lets say your a losing player, and you've lost about 1k, and then u really started taking poker seriously, and reading up on it, and playing a totally different game, now even though your stats might have u as a losing player, your actually quite the opposite, Now your oppents at the tables, think your this big "FISH", and they've landed the monster catch of all times, but really you've caught them because we know your not a losing player anymore, don't be upset, it's only words, well actually, letters printed on a screen to make u feel bad

I used to let my husband play on my accounts. He's a great live player, but let's face it, really sucks online (don't tell him I said that ). So that helped to jack up my stats. Plus, I feel I'm a "good" player, but definitely not the best I can be. I'm improving everyday. Or sometimes I just go through huge downswings.

So yeah, I get the occassional, "juiceeQ really sucks. ROI is-5672%". I just laugh. The few times that has happened to me, I've ended up knocking them out and winning the tournament...usually a SNG.

Which brings up another point. I play mainly SNG's. Few MTT's. I can run fairly good in the SNG's and barely ever cash in the MTT's. Thus the bad OPR. But whatev. Let them think what they want, imo.

Some thoughts:

1. Some sites the use of these tools are legal and others there not.

2. On being fair-when you are playing sports(ie:football,soccer,baseball,etc...) no matter what level you play there are mounds of stats on all players. From high school to pros you have access to these stats, why should poker be any different.

3. People do not always know how to read stat or how to apply them. My stats on Shark Scope has me at -14% ROI. Which more or less in the sngs they cover is right. One problem is the sng they cover do not include everything i play. Second, i just started to play online and made my first deposit in the spring. I played all kinds of SnG to test the waters so to speak. I believe they even tell you on SS that for data of less then 100 games at a level is not a good picture of the player. I have played just over 150 SnG so far at all levels. If you just look at the -14% ROI you are missing the whole picture. The games I settled on playing, $3&$5 SNG I have +ROI. As of today for all SnG and MTT I have bought in to 215 tourneys for $755.04 with winnings of $751.24. Negitive but on the upswing. Just a beginner, but if someone wants to look just at the -14% ROI be my guest, it will be to your disadvantage.

4. I keep very accurate stats on Poker Tracker and find the stat site close but they are never 100%.

I get this alot, players see me playing loose at times and winning with garbage, they look me up on sharkscope and see my stats and think I am a big fish.
Little do they know that I have improved my game over the past couple months and the stats they see are averaged more over a timeframe when I did generally suck.
So I say, "Go search me buddy, I don't care"

Tracking statistics is not cheating, they are tools for anybody's use. Dont like the numbers change them by winning.

They certainly do rank private mtt's.

true I am improving. my july stats are 0% R.O.I. so thats better than minus I guess and true it gives me an advantage if people think I stink. but lets remember one thing, this is a money game, my money game, no a contract player or any thing else. tell me one sport where players put up their own money fin. no its not fair to bring that to the table and have little phones and chit over my head telling a player to call me. might as well be a bot playing for them. ITS CHEATING! plain and simple. but thats ok cause im dropping a email on scope and edge and telling them to hide them for now.

What everyone else said.

The easiest solution would be to play with chat off, dont matter whats being said then.

The best solution is to let them call you names, play tight and smart wait for a big hand and knock them out/take there money. Its so nice doing this and when I do this I usally say gg to them, some it drives crazy but others think twice bout calling you due to your stats again.

For me I do check OPR on a regular basis.

What I find it does for me is... when I see someone with a massive chipstack and calling with zero and hitting early in a tourny, it helps me to be patient. If I know they are on nothing more but a lucky streak it keeps you focused.

I do not think it is cheating.

The reason I think this is that everyone can do this. It can only be cheating if someone is doing something that no one elso can.

ok one more time for everyone that is not hearing what im saying. I dont care if someone goes out of their way to look up my stats(more power to them) I am talking about a stats program like edge or scope that actually comes into the game with you and floats next to the entire table giving every stat available. its horse chit and its CHEATING! with an unfair advantage

I agree, with a caveat. Any stats obtained from games that you were not involved in is cheating, but stat programs like pokertracker is not cheating. It's just a database of hands that you were involved in. You could spend the time and effort to keep these stats with a paper and pencil if you were obsessive compulsive enough.

A wise man once said:

I always think it is an advantage for people to label me a bad player. I usually tell them I am a bad player. (Prob the truth!!) If they think I am bad they can't tell what I have because I am unpredictable. What do you mean, they "bomb" you?

stats are great but they dont tell you what the person is doing right there right now in that tourney. the fact that he looks bad according to stats is not necessarily an indication of how they are playing at that moment. i dont see anything wrong with, but to rely on it too much would probably not be the best idea.

well i find the cest way to shut them up is put them out.and i know i suc but learning more every day by sucking.so i like the tell on ya sites cause they only tell your past and thats a good thing when your on hot hands.

Shinedown says he gets this too, but the only time I see people getting razzed for their stats is after they start talking trash. You weren't talking trash, were you Devil? I don't like the results out there for everyone, but they are, so...

When I first started playing online a few months ago, I played primarily cheap SnG's and tournaments, to protect my bankroll and minimize losses while adjusting to the online game. So while my early performance was poor, it was a cheap and valuable learning experience. I soon fell in love with ring games and all but stopped playing tournaments altogether, so my Shark and OPR stats have improved little from my early days. Shark has me at -4% ROI and OPR has me at -15% ROI, but my cash stats are much more profitable, especially for the last month or so. So I would love for anybody playing me in a cash game to try to use my tourney/sng stats against me.

BTW last Sunday I got bored and thought I'd play around with some SnG's and tourneys again for a change. I played 8 total, ranging from a couple 2500+ player tourneys to some 45 & 180 player SnG's. I finished ITM 2/8, including one 1st. ROI for that day was +30%. Maybe in light of this thread I should keep my tourney ROI where it is, to lure some of the stat-whore sharks into a cash game, LOL.

Now this sounds like you have a problem with HUD's, which is a different animal from Shark and OPR stats. HUD's are allowed by virtually all the major sites, and simply automates and display the same stats that you should be keeping up with yourself -- HUD's don't provide you with any secret information.

BTW for awhile Stars banned the use of Shark while playing. Now it seems they may have backed off that or are unsure about it. Technically, being web-based, it would be much harder to detect and enforce, so maybe they gave up on it.

Hey sometimes these stats used against someone can really strike a nerve... I find it's good to throw an AHole who keeps running their mouth's bad stats in their face... makes them feel like they have something to prove or go on tilt which equals $$$ for good players It's a real borderline dirty trick but hey any edge in poker no matter how small has to be pounced on am i right??