The Top Pros

The best 20 poker players in the world at the moment:

1. Daniel Negreanu
2. Phil Ivey
3. Doyle Brunson
4. Johnny Chan
5. Gus Hansen
6. Chris Ferguson
7. Phil Hellmuth
8. T. J. Cloutier
9. Scotty Nguyen
10. Mike Matusow
11. Barry Greenstein
12. Phil Laak
13. Sam Farha
14. Antonio Esfandiari
15. Erick Lindgren
16. Howard Lederer
17. Jennifer Harman
18. Erik Seidel
19. John Juanda
20. Chau Giang

Huh?

Is this a list from where and based on something? Or just opinion?

sorry, shudve made it clear - just an opinion.

Are you talking about NLHE only? Even if you are i dont agree with you.
But, if your talking about all round poker, how can Chip Reese not be in the top 20?

Ok thanks. How did you come to your conclusions? No break down? Gimma reasons man!

There are some online players making the jump into live action that will really open people eyes that you are missing.

Also, no Allen Cunningham?

Your 'best players at the moment' list is not correct at all.

Gee, I wonder if cslowey and the OP are posting from the same IP address?

I love spam, wonderful spam...

OOoo! I like the way you think! But no. I checked. Gotta love the random spam post though.

OK where are Chip Reese and Allen Cunningham, and why is Phil Laak ranked so highly?

Also, no Antonius, no JC Tran, no Grinder, no... etc. For some reason the list has put me on tilt.

Alien, should I bring Emelianenko back?

There are holes in a few more of your claims as well, but not really in the mood to state them. I just pointed out the most obv ones.

My opinion, live with it.

7. Phil Hellmuth ....

tournament pro, this is all around list so I wouldn't put Phil to high because in cash games I think he gets beat bad.

now if this was tourney pros he would be one of my top 3 easy.

of course I dont agree with this list at all just dont feel like taking time to give my opinion.

This is how the list should be:

1. Daniel Negreanu
2. Phil Ivey
3. Phil Hellmuth
4. Doyle Brunson
5. Johnny Chan
6. Gus Hansen
7. Chip Reese
8. Allen Cunningham
9. J.C. Tran
10. Barry Greenstein
11. Chris Ferguson
12. Mike Matusow
13. Phil Laak
14. T. J. Cloutier
15. Antonio Esfandiari
16. Jennifer Harman
17. Erick Lindgren
18. Michael Mizrachi
19. Paul Wasicka
20. Scotty Nguyen
21. Howard Lederer
22. Erik Seidel
23. John Juanda
24. Greg Raymer
25. Sam Farha
26. Men Nguyen
27. Eli Elezra
28. Humberto Brennes
29. Todd Brunson
30. Annie Duke

So what exactly is this list based on? How often you see these players on TV? Seems pretty poor basis for rating these players. LOL @ Jennifer Harman being awful.

As someone that has played with many of the top professionals and with friends that have played against all of them, I'm going to go ahead and say this list is plain wrong.

Daniel Negreanu: very good but not top 10. Is a bit of a calling station from my experience, but I've seen him make a few good laydowns.
Phil Ivey: easily top 5 as any pro will tell you, probably top 3
Phil Hellmuth: uhh have you watched highstakes poker? Hellmuth is awful. He is good at playing against people with no clue in tournaments, in cash games he is clueless, and against good players he is easily exploited. He is good and has been successful because he excels at beating large fields filled with weak players, such as found in the WSOP.
Doyle Brunson: very good but not top 10. Probably lacks the stamina to compete in big tourneys but still has the mental prowess to beat the highest cash games.
Johnny Chan: good tournament player but no longer has the patience to outlast large field modern tourneys
Gus Hansen: A pioneer of many loose aggressive methods, but has not truly mastered them. A very strong, maybe top 25 but probably at the bottom of that list.
Chip Reese: Good at cash games, consistent winner at mixed games which is why he excels at HORSE. If you put him up against top internet players that specialize in one game he would get creamed, but I still think he is top 5 all-around just for his versatility.
Allen Cunningham: top 5 large
J.C. Tran: Never played w/ him, don't know much about him.
Barry Greenstein: Very good, especially at handreading. Very tough to fool. Excels at playing the shortstack and also a very nice person.
Chris Ferguson: Good at tournaments but limited experience in cash games
Mike Matusow : Ugh why is he on the list? He's not good. He tilts easily, he has no bankroll management, he's in debt up to his eyes, and his poker game frankly isn't that good. I know many many amateurs that are far better than this joke.
13. Phil Laak Not good, doesn't deserve to be on the list
14. T. J. Cloutier Another degenerate, gambles all his poker winnings away on craps. Deep in debt. A competent tourney player but I wouldn't put him on the list.
15. Antonio Esfandiari Never played with him, from what I've seen he seems pretty good, top 50
16. Jennifer Harman: Top 10, Top 5 in Limit Hold'em. Amazing player.
17. Erick Lindgren: Good tournament player, easily top 25
18. Michael Mizrachi: Meh. Decent but nothing amazing. Another pure tournament player.
19. Paul Wasicka: Never played with him, not too fond of his Open ended straight flush laydown at the final table of the world series of poker, but I think he has a good head on his shoulders and could beat high stakes poker.
20. Scotty Nguyen: never played with him, no opinion
21. Howard Lederer: Can't make up my mind on this one. He's a genuinely nice person, but his game is too solid and he passes up too many edges to be a top player at NL, I think. He's also a top-notch limit hold'em player.
22. Erik Seidel: underrated tourney player, hasn't done much recently for some reason, never played w/ him
23. John Juanda: top notch NLHE tourney player
24. Greg Raymer: has a typical internet hyperaggressive style that he plays quite well. Not a top poker player, I hear that he's pretty good at omaha but in NLHE he's mostly a tournament player. He's quite good at using aggressive bluffs, semibluffs, etc. to force people to a decision for all their chips, and often they just fold rather than risk a coinflip. Very effective style, but it's also quite risky.
25. Sam Farha: Loose and aggressive, but he's nothing special at hold'em. He's competent at tournaments but his true strength is in pot limit omaha, where he's among the top 3 players in the world.
26. Men Nguyen: never played with him but I'm not to impressed from what I've seen on TV
27. Eli Elezra: Very good shorthanded cash game player but lost when it comes to tournaments or 9handed play.
28. Humberto Brennes: This has got to be a joke, right? This guy only plays AA, KK, AK. He's a complete nit and really isn't any good at all.
29. Todd Brunson: Never played with him, I hear his style is similar to that of his father's but I don't think he's as good a player as his Dad.
30. Annie Duke: ANother joke. Annie Duke is not even close to a top player.


The fact that names such as Brian Townsend, Patrik Antonius, David Benyamine, Brad Booth, and Phil Galfond were ommitted say to me that the original poster basically just watched the World Series and WPT on tv and made a list of faces he remembers without any true analysis of the games.

Brian Townsend and Patrik Antonius are better at No Limit Hold'em than anyone mentioned on any list here, save for possibly Phil Ivey, and there it's close. Benyamine is better at Omaha than anyone listed.

Also, there are a ton of top internet tourney professionals that put most of this list to shame. Shane "Shaniac" Schegler, Adam Junglen, Eric "rizen" Lynch, Darryl "gigabet" Dicken, (Greg "fossilman" Raymer), Jimmy "gobboboy" Fricke, Jordan "imsolucky0" Morgan, and Jason "Strassa2" Strasser have all successfully jumped from online tourneys to live tourneys and are having huge success on the tourney circuit, winning millions every year.

And you are...?

OK, you are "someone who has played against many of the top professionals" but surely no one has the authority or omniscience to put up an objective list of the best players.

Interesting response Sinkist - Jennifer Harmon and Patrik Antonius are 2 players I like most.

Anyway - welcome to Cardschat.

So you've played with basically everyone else on the list?


He is 3rd in WSOP cashes or so I believe, with around 50 or so, I think he has a very proven track record in NLHE events. Complete nits don't consistently make cashes (or else a lot of basic ABC players would be making 50 or so cashes in the WSOP) and complete nits don't make numerous final table appearances.

Although maybe not a top all-around player, she is one of the better hi/low players.

Yes, because these internet professionals will put most of the top pros that have been around for at least 10+ years to shame with their vast internet experience. The last paragraph is just hilarious.

Sinkist, although the details might be subject to dispute, that`s one of the most interesting first posts I have ever seen by a new member.

May we know your name ?

OH !!! I get it now, its popularity opinion..... In which case, I like Gabe Kaplan.

LOLOLOLOL

Got me curious too!

Oh, btw. Being danish, i read about Gus Hansens results in the papers. Seems he's doing quite terrible at the wsop, but winning bigtime online at FT.

I've been playing in Vegas and for a while and have met and played with many professionals(mostly in tournaments). I've been successful enough to make a living at poker and am good enough to realize who is good and who is not. I consider myself to be a good player but not amazing, but I also think there are a number of names on this list that are not even good at No Limit Hold'em, or poker in general to be honest.

I'm not giving out my name FWIW for security reasons, but suffice it to say that I'm not famous enough that any of you would have heard of me. I play mostly cash games, tournaments are not really my specialty, which also makes it hard to get on tv.

He's also been playing for a while...
just play with him sometime, go to Vegas at the world series and watch how many hands he plays, he seriously is a complete nit. He's also annoying (I think he's nice, but that shark thing is really rude).

I don't know anything about this, my knowledge on her mostly comes from what I've seen and what I've heard. A lot of gossip comes around when you live in Vegas 9 months out of the year.

Most internet pros have played many many many more hands of poker than professionals; you can play 8-12 tables at once online (sometimes even more), and get in many many more hands per hour at each one. Also, many internet pros specialize in one game, whereas live pros play a lot of different games.

The list of live pros that are now broke or have lost their entire bankrolls would astonish you. From what was going around Vegas last month, TJ Cloutier, Daniel Negreanu (just his poker roll, he has a lot of investments), Gus Hansen, Tuan Le (another good player not mentioned on the list) just being a few that I've heard about.

Just look at the results from a couple weeks ago, when Brian Townsend, an admittedly inexperienced live player, took Sam Farha for more than 1$ million over two days.

Matusow is down almost 1$million on Full Tilt, and is deeply deeply in debt. He is not a winning player. He is good enough that he could beat 10/20NL and maybe 25/50NL live (or probably 3/6NL online) if he could just keep his head, but he plays in stakes that are beyond what he can afford and that are beyond his skill level.

I live in Vegas most of the time of the year. I'm in NYC at the moment, took a job here for the summer and a few months afterwards, but I'll be back soon.

Anyways, I don't play poker for a living (mostly stick to 1/2 or 2/5), but I may have heard of you if you are one of the names in cash games. Where do you play most of the time? But if you don't want to give it out, no worries.

I've seen him play. Yes he is more on the tight side, but he's not completely straightup ABC. He does make moves from time to time, most of the time when he is a bit short, but he does make plays when he has to. I think when he gets a bit bigstacked, he starts playing overly cautious, but you can't say the results have not proven he's one of the best in the WSOP at least.

I know this fact. However, that's the reason why I said that that comment was hilarious. Most internet guys are specialists. Live pros play a lot of different games. Yes, maybe if we were talking about just HE, then it may be fine to say that, but we're talking about the best poker player (like you said before in one of your posts, seems like your contradicting yourself)--and because we're talking about the best poker players, I don't think most of these internet phenoms qualify. Some of them may.



Townsend v. Farha, and taking him for $1 mil, isn't much to talk about. Farha isn't one of the best poker players in the world. If Townsend had taken Ivey or Reese or Negreanu for $1 mil, in a variety of HU games, then I would say that is something to talk about.

And Matusow, is not considered one of the top pros.

Sinkist is my gimmick account on all forums, so yes I will not be revealing myself since I post on this account with express intentions of disguise.

Anyways, Townsend and Patrik Antonius are more or less even with Ivey online from what I understand, perhaps even up against him. I know Ivey is a winner at the highest stakes online, but not necessarilly against other top players (ie SBRugby/Luigi/Durr/OMGCLAYAIKEN etc.)

I have to agree with sinkist here estelle, I enjoy reading your posts but there are a lot of internet pros that are not given enough credit.

Brian Townsend is a great player, better then alot of the pros you guys mention all the time. I have wached Brian play a lot on his videos and his thought process is amazing.

also people like Rizen, anette, etc are amazing players and are just not given credit unless you read a lot of poker magazines that do online reports. Hell go to pocket fives and look at their rankings or just go to poker db and search them. They cash like daily in tourneys, Brian plays 200/400 online against the pros that you mention.


Brian Townsend does all different games I have seen the videos.


This list is bad list.

Oh no worries storms. I see the point. I was just stating that most of the top internet pros, besides for a few exceptions, are specialists in one area--thus they can't be considered one of the top poker players, because they don't play enough games at a high level.

Also, I didn't make that list. I agree, it is a bad list. I was just making a case for some of the names on that list that sinkist disagreed with. I think a few of the names do belong there for sure.

Welcome to the forums, secret agent man. What, giving out your name will start a national security breach? That is just hilarious.

oh God not this thread again.

annette is overrated. I dislike pocketfives, 2+2 and rpg are the only good strategy forums I've found (and even they are mostly fish giving bad advice)